Pure vision, what's up with?
Pure vision, what's up with?
I wonder if anyone can tell me a little about Pure Vision transmissions (if I even have the terminology correct) and how they are received and verified.
I'm not so much interested in how one lama might verify another lama's pure vision (unless that is part of the process), because I know that these can be controversial and there can be disagreements, but about a lama or practitioner receives and verifies these.
Is it common for lamas to receive pure visions as part of their three year retreat, or through their practice in general?
Are these visions sought, or do they just arise?
How are they differentiate from a very strong imaginary experience?
(Just to be clear, ...I have received no pure visions and am not trying to verify any, just very interested in this process).
I'm not so much interested in how one lama might verify another lama's pure vision (unless that is part of the process), because I know that these can be controversial and there can be disagreements, but about a lama or practitioner receives and verifies these.
Is it common for lamas to receive pure visions as part of their three year retreat, or through their practice in general?
Are these visions sought, or do they just arise?
How are they differentiate from a very strong imaginary experience?
(Just to be clear, ...I have received no pure visions and am not trying to verify any, just very interested in this process).
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
- Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Pure visions may be a little less "regulated" than termas. But my understanding of termas is that there are some checks and balances in the tradition, it's not completely wild and hairy. For one, I believe a terton must be a reincarnation of one of Padmasambhava's 25 disciples. Secondly, there are six (up to nine?) terma lineages that must be intact for a terma to be considered valid. One of those is a prophesy lineage. The terton should have already been prophesied by Guru Rinpoche that they would reveal this teaching at a particular time and place. Some of these prophesies really are quite detailed.
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Oh wow, thats amazing. I had no idea that it was that detailed!Thomas Amundsen wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:53 am Pure visions may be a little less "regulated" than termas. But my understanding of termas is that there are some checks and balances in the tradition, it's not completely wild and hairy. For one, I believe a terton must be a reincarnation of one of Padmasambhava's 25 disciples. Secondly, there are six (up to nine?) terma lineages that must be intact for a terma to be considered valid. One of those is a prophesy lineage. The terton should have already been prophesied by Guru Rinpoche that they would reveal this teaching at a particular time and place. Some of these prophesies really are quite detailed.
I'm even more interested in the differences or similarities between the qualifications of a terton and of the receiver of a pure vision teaching.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Most of these rules are later elaborations.Thomas Amundsen wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:53 am Pure visions may be a little less "regulated" than termas. But my understanding of termas is that there are some checks and balances in the tradition, it's not completely wild and hairy. For one, I believe a terton must be a reincarnation of one of Padmasambhava's 25 disciples. Secondly, there are six (up to nine?) terma lineages that must be intact for a terma to be considered valid. One of those is a prophesy lineage. The terton should have already been prophesied by Guru Rinpoche that they would reveal this teaching at a particular time and place. Some of these prophesies really are quite detailed.
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
You need to be a reancarnation of someone who has had the very rare privilege of having been personally chosen by Padmasambhava to receive the transmissions of said treasures.climb-up wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:35 pm I wonder if anyone can tell me a little about Pure Vision transmissions (if I even have the terminology correct) and how they are received and verified.
I'm not so much interested in how one lama might verify another lama's pure vision (unless that is part of the process), because I know that these can be controversial and there can be disagreements, but about a lama or practitioner receives and verifies these.
Is it common for lamas to receive pure visions as part of their three year retreat, or through their practice in general?
Are these visions sought, or do they just arise?
How are they differentiate from a very strong imaginary experience?
(Just to be clear, ...I have received no pure visions and am not trying to verify any, just very interested in this process).
These are some of his disciples. When the time comes for these treasures to be revealed the disciple should enter a period of retreat where he meets Padmasambhava himself in a vission or a dream and where past memories of empowerments and details about the terma to be revealed are awakened.
I guess the way this happens is not set in stone but this is how, more or less, Ratna Lingpa explains it.
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Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Ah, that makes sense. Later like 14th century, or much more recent?Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:15 pmMost of these rules are later elaborations.Thomas Amundsen wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:53 am Pure visions may be a little less "regulated" than termas. But my understanding of termas is that there are some checks and balances in the tradition, it's not completely wild and hairy. For one, I believe a terton must be a reincarnation of one of Padmasambhava's 25 disciples. Secondly, there are six (up to nine?) terma lineages that must be intact for a terma to be considered valid. One of those is a prophesy lineage. The terton should have already been prophesied by Guru Rinpoche that they would reveal this teaching at a particular time and place. Some of these prophesies really are quite detailed.
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
It is cumulative, each generation added more rules.Thomas Amundsen wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:32 pmAh, that makes sense. Later like 14th century, or much more recent?Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:15 pmMost of these rules are later elaborations.Thomas Amundsen wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:53 am Pure visions may be a little less "regulated" than termas. But my understanding of termas is that there are some checks and balances in the tradition, it's not completely wild and hairy. For one, I believe a terton must be a reincarnation of one of Padmasambhava's 25 disciples. Secondly, there are six (up to nine?) terma lineages that must be intact for a terma to be considered valid. One of those is a prophesy lineage. The terton should have already been prophesied by Guru Rinpoche that they would reveal this teaching at a particular time and place. Some of these prophesies really are quite detailed.
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Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Gotcha, thanks!
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Does the fact that they are later elaborations mean that some do not follow them, or are they now commonly accepted?Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:15 pmMost of these rules are later elaborations.Thomas Amundsen wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:53 am Pure visions may be a little less "regulated" than termas. But my understanding of termas is that there are some checks and balances in the tradition, it's not completely wild and hairy. For one, I believe a terton must be a reincarnation of one of Padmasambhava's 25 disciples. Secondly, there are six (up to nine?) terma lineages that must be intact for a terma to be considered valid. One of those is a prophesy lineage. The terton should have already been prophesied by Guru Rinpoche that they would reveal this teaching at a particular time and place. Some of these prophesies really are quite detailed.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
This is to be a terton right?florin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 pmYou need to be a reancarnation of someone who has had the very rare privilege of having been personally chosen by Padmasambhava to receive the transmissions of said treasures.climb-up wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:35 pm I wonder if anyone can tell me a little about Pure Vision transmissions (if I even have the terminology correct) and how they are received and verified.
I'm not so much interested in how one lama might verify another lama's pure vision (unless that is part of the process), because I know that these can be controversial and there can be disagreements, but about a lama or practitioner receives and verifies these.
Is it common for lamas to receive pure visions as part of their three year retreat, or through their practice in general?
Are these visions sought, or do they just arise?
How are they differentiate from a very strong imaginary experience?
(Just to be clear, ...I have received no pure visions and am not trying to verify any, just very interested in this process).
These are some of his disciples. When the time comes for these treasures to be revealed the disciple should enter a period of retreat where he meets Padmasambhava himself in a vission or a dream and where past memories of empowerments and details about the terma to be revealed are awakened.
I guess the way this happens is not set in stone but this is how, more or less, Ratna Lingpa explains it.
Or is it the same to receive a pure vision?
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
My late teacher, an important terton, said if you want to be a terton, the only real requirement is faith in Guru Rinpoche. If you supplicate him strongly enough with genuine compassion for sentient beings, then you might be able to reveal terma.climb-up wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:15 pmThis is to be a terton right?florin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 pmYou need to be a reancarnation of someone who has had the very rare privilege of having been personally chosen by Padmasambhava to receive the transmissions of said treasures.climb-up wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:35 pm I wonder if anyone can tell me a little about Pure Vision transmissions (if I even have the terminology correct) and how they are received and verified.
I'm not so much interested in how one lama might verify another lama's pure vision (unless that is part of the process), because I know that these can be controversial and there can be disagreements, but about a lama or practitioner receives and verifies these.
Is it common for lamas to receive pure visions as part of their three year retreat, or through their practice in general?
Are these visions sought, or do they just arise?
How are they differentiate from a very strong imaginary experience?
(Just to be clear, ...I have received no pure visions and am not trying to verify any, just very interested in this process).
These are some of his disciples. When the time comes for these treasures to be revealed the disciple should enter a period of retreat where he meets Padmasambhava himself in a vission or a dream and where past memories of empowerments and details about the terma to be revealed are awakened.
I guess the way this happens is not set in stone but this is how, more or less, Ratna Lingpa explains it.
Or is it the same to receive a pure vision?
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
In addition, I believe Naropa has a degree program for that now.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:25 pm
In addition, I believe Naropa has a degree program for that now.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:17 pmMy late teacher, an important terton, said if you want to be a terton, the only real requirement is faith in Guru Rinpoche. If you supplicate him strongly enough with genuine compassion for sentient beings, then you might be able to reveal terma.climb-up wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:15 pmThis is to be a terton right?florin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 pm
You need to be a reancarnation of someone who has had the very rare privilege of having been personally chosen by Padmasambhava to receive the transmissions of said treasures.
These are some of his disciples. When the time comes for these treasures to be revealed the disciple should enter a period of retreat where he meets Padmasambhava himself in a vission or a dream and where past memories of empowerments and details about the terma to be revealed are awakened.
I guess the way this happens is not set in stone but this is how, more or less, Ratna Lingpa explains it.
Or is it the same to receive a pure vision?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
How does this fit with the traditional view of who can be tertons (GR's direct disciples)?
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
Sure. I guess this interpretation by Kunzang Dechen Lingpa (who I assume you referred to) is rather unique, since tertonship usually refers to someone who has been original disciple of GR.
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
So, following up on my OP, the discussion here keeps going back to Tertons (which is fascinating and awesome).
Am I wrong in thinking though that receiving a pure visions is different from receiving a terma and being a terton?
I'm under the impression that these are separate.
Am I wrong in thinking though that receiving a pure visions is different from receiving a terma and being a terton?
I'm under the impression that these are separate.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Pure vision, what's up with?
I think it might be that terma can be revealed bia pure visions but not all pure visions are terma.climb-up wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:37 pm So, following up on my OP, the discussion here keeps going back to Tertons (which is fascinating and awesome).
Am I wrong in thinking though that receiving a pure visions is different from receiving a terma and being a terton?
I'm under the impression that these are separate.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa