Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

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Tiago Simões
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Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Tiago Simões »

What's the one you would recommend to gain more knowledge on death and dying?
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DewachenVagabond
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by DewachenVagabond »

I had Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth by Tulku Thondup recommended to me, and it is fantastic. It is detailed but I found it easy to understand. It covers everything to do with death, as well as karma, meditations, and phowa/rituals for the dead.
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KristenM
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by KristenM »

'Mirror of Mindfulness' is highly recommended.
Malcolm
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Malcolm »

Tiago Simões wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:49 pm What's the one you would recommend to gain more knowledge on death and dying?
The best description of the death process can be found in ChNN's Birth, Life, and Death. It is the clearest and most profound resource in English.
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heart
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by heart »

Tiago Simões wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:49 pm What's the one you would recommend to gain more knowledge on death and dying?
https://www.namsebangdzo.com/Bardo_Guid ... /10468.htm

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

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philji
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by philji »

Currently reading Anyen Rinpoche’s Dying with Confidence which has a lot of practical advice and support for one either going through the death process or supporting someone who is.
Tiago Simões
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Tiago Simões »

I was hoping for a more homogeneous response... :tongue:
:thanks:
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Josef
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Josef »

philji wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:16 pm Currently reading Anyen Rinpoche’s Dying with Confidence which has a lot of practical advice and support for one either going through the death process or supporting someone who is.
That's a wonderful and approachable book.
It was also an absolute delight to work on with Rinpoche and Allison.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

The Tibetan Book of the Dead. This is a translation of the bardo thodrol by Gyurme Dorje. I don't know why they kept the Evans-Wentz title, but this is not like the Evans-Wentz book. This is a good translation and contains many other sections from Karma Lingpa's zab chos zhi khro dgongs pa rang grol that weren't translated before. I'd also recommend Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth for a more contemporary read. The dissolution of elements are explained perfectly in Tulku Thondup's book, you don't need the Bardo Thodrol just for that. Karma Lingpa goes into a lot more detail on the visions in the bardos and how to practice these things if you're engaged in tantra.

Birth, Life, and Death by Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is an incredible book generally speaking, but doesn't have as much material on death as the other two.
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by lelopa »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:58 pm The Tibetan Book of the Dead. This is a translation of the bardo thodrol by Gyurme Dorje. I don't know why they kept the Evans-Wentz title, but this is not like the Evans-Wentz book. This is a good translation and contains many other sections from Karma Lingpa's zab chos zhi khro dgongs pa rang grol that weren't translated before. I'd also recommend Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth for a more contemporary read. The dissolution of elements are explained perfectly in Tulku Thondup's book, you don't need the Bardo Thodrol just for that. Karma Lingpa goes into a lot more detail on the visions in the bardos and how to practice these things if you're engaged in tantra.

Birth, Life, and Death by Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is an incredible book generally speaking, but doesn't have as much material on death as the other two.
I second that!!
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Malcolm
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Malcolm »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:58 pm
Birth, Life, and Death by Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is an incredible book generally speaking, but doesn't have as much material on death as the other two.
Read it again more carefully. :-)
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Quay
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Quay »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:32 pm
Tiago Simões wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:49 pm What's the one you would recommend to gain more knowledge on death and dying?
The best description of the death process can be found in ChNN's Birth, Life, and Death. It is the clearest and most profound resource in English.
Thanks for this recommendation. I've ordered a copy and look forward to reading it.
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:01 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:58 pm
Birth, Life, and Death by Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is an incredible book generally speaking, but doesn't have as much material on death as the other two.
Read it again more carefully. :-)
I just skimmed through it again. It really depends on what OP is looking for. For a more generalized pithy overview, Birth, Life, and Death by Rinpoche probably is better. Everything is in there, that is for sure. But Karma Lingpa does go into a lot more detail. Where Rinpoche simply mentions "Buddhas of the five families", Karma Lingpa goes into explicit detail about their colors, hand implements, etc. I guess for students with some capacity, Rinpoche's instructions really are all you need :smile:

I'm currently studying Karma Lingpa's text with my teacher in LA, so I might be a little biased towards appreciating that.
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mechashivaz
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by mechashivaz »

Tiago Simões wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:49 pm What's the one you would recommend to gain more knowledge on death and dying?
Robert Thurman has one I found very informative: The Great Book of Natural Liberation Through Understanding in the Between. There's also a companion lecture on audible: Liberation Upon Hearing in the Between.
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Malcolm »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:56 am
Malcolm wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:01 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:58 pm
Birth, Life, and Death by Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is an incredible book generally speaking, but doesn't have as much material on death as the other two.
Read it again more carefully. :-)
I just skimmed through it again. It really depends on what OP is looking for. For a more generalized pithy overview, Birth, Life, and Death by Rinpoche probably is better. Everything is in there, that is for sure. But Karma Lingpa does go into a lot more detail. Where Rinpoche simply mentions "Buddhas of the five families", Karma Lingpa goes into explicit detail about their colors, hand implements, etc. I guess for students with some capacity, Rinpoche's instructions really are all you need :smile:

I'm currently studying Karma Lingpa's text with my teacher in LA, so I might be a little biased towards appreciating that.
If you see hands and faces in the bardo, it is too late for you.
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:49 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:56 am
Malcolm wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:01 pm

Read it again more carefully. :-)
I just skimmed through it again. It really depends on what OP is looking for. For a more generalized pithy overview, Birth, Life, and Death by Rinpoche probably is better. Everything is in there, that is for sure. But Karma Lingpa does go into a lot more detail. Where Rinpoche simply mentions "Buddhas of the five families", Karma Lingpa goes into explicit detail about their colors, hand implements, etc. I guess for students with some capacity, Rinpoche's instructions really are all you need :smile:

I'm currently studying Karma Lingpa's text with my teacher in LA, so I might be a little biased towards appreciating that.
If you see hands and faces in the bardo, it is too late for you.
Too late for rainbow body? Sure. But not too late to be liberated into a Samboghakaya or Nirmanakaya buddhafield.
Malcolm
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Malcolm »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:21 pm
Too late for rainbow body? Sure. But not too late to be liberated into a Samboghakaya or Nirmanakaya buddhafield.
You don't need Liberation through Hearing in the Bardo for that. :-)

Don't get me wrong, it is an excellent text, as is Karling Zhitro in general. But sometimes, the essence gets lost in such details.
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Kris »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:21 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:49 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:56 am

I just skimmed through it again. It really depends on what OP is looking for. For a more generalized pithy overview, Birth, Life, and Death by Rinpoche probably is better. Everything is in there, that is for sure. But Karma Lingpa does go into a lot more detail. Where Rinpoche simply mentions "Buddhas of the five families", Karma Lingpa goes into explicit detail about their colors, hand implements, etc. I guess for students with some capacity, Rinpoche's instructions really are all you need :smile:

I'm currently studying Karma Lingpa's text with my teacher in LA, so I might be a little biased towards appreciating that.
If you see hands and faces in the bardo, it is too late for you.
Too late for rainbow body? Sure. But not too late to be liberated into a Samboghakaya or Nirmanakaya buddhafield.
If I'm not mistaken the difference may lie in awakening in this life; in this very body, juxtaposed to awakening in akanistha.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:26 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:21 pm
Too late for rainbow body? Sure. But not too late to be liberated into a Samboghakaya or Nirmanakaya buddhafield.
You don't need Liberation through Hearing in the Bardo for that. :-)

Don't get me wrong, it is an excellent text, as is Karling Zhitro in general. But sometimes, the essence gets lost in such details.
Can't argue with any of that. :anjali:
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Re: Best book on the Bardo Thodöl or Death in general

Post by Vasana »

Not a book but a relevant sutra which details the nature of the alaya and the interim state after death.

http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra18.html
  • 大乘顯識經
    Mahāyāna Sūtra of Consciousness Revealed
    Translated from Sanskrit into Chinese in the Tang Dynasty
    by
    The Tripiṭaka Master Divākara from India


    [...](The Buddha to Bodhisattva, 'Moon-Reality) 'The auspicious precious butter does not have hands, feet, or eyes, but it can retain the strength of the substance, aromas, and flavors of good medicines. In the same way, [ālaya] consciousness can retain one’s good karma and dharma realm. After abandoning the current body, it will manifest wonderful celestial vision through an interim body. It can see the six desire heavens and the sixteen hells. It can see its [interim] body with shapely hands and feet and fine sense organs. It also can see the abandoned corpse and recognize it as the body of its former life. It also can see tall magnificent celestial palaces with various kinds of adornments, surrounded by flowers, fruits, and trees, and covered with vines so radiant and gorgeous that they are like new gold chains set with jewels. Having seen these things, it will be very joyous. Because of great joy and love, [ālaya] consciousness will entrust itself to this [environment].'

    [...]“When a person with good karma abandons his body to assume another body, it is peaceful and painless. It is like a horseman abandoning one horse to ride another. It is like a warrior armed with military strategy. When the enemy troops approach, he puts on his sturdy armor and fearlessly rides off on his steed. Likewise, [ālaya] consciousness, supported with one’s roots of goodness, abandons the inhalation and exhalation of this body as well as its spheres, and moves away to experience fabulous pleasures by rebirth in heaven, whether a Brahma heaven or even the top heaven heaven in the form realm.”

    [...]“Great Medicine, you ask what appearance consciousness assumes during the interval after it has abandoned its old body but has not yet accepted a new body. Great Medicine, by analogy, a person’s reflection in the water has no mass to grasp. Yet its hands, feet, facial features, and other shapes are no different from the person’s. The reflection has no mass, nor does it do karmas. It has neither sense of hot or cold nor sense of touch. Nor does it fatigue or have flesh made with the four domains. Nor does it make sounds of speech, sounds of body, or sounds of pain or pleasure. The same is true for the appearance of [ālaya] consciousness after it has abandoned the old body but has not accepted a new body. Great Medicine, this explains how [ālaya] consciousness with a store of good karmas is reborn in heaven.”
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
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