Fear

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kalden yungdrung
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Fear

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm

Tashi delek,

Fear for something, has a cause, no doubt about it.

- Fear for the death / dying, is one well known example of it.
- Fear has many causes, or maybe only one cause ?

Guess that has something to do with the basic imprints and their changings / confrontations ?

What do you think ?
The best meditation is no meditation

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Grigoris
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Re: Fear

Post by Grigoris » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:29 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm
Tashi delek,

Fear for something, has a cause, no doubt about it.

- Fear for the death / dying, is one well known example of it.
- Fear has many causes, or maybe only one cause ?

Guess that has something to do with the basic imprints and their changings / confrontations ?

What do you think ?
Fear is based on self-cherishing. Self-cherishing is based on an ignorance of how we truly exist.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Fear

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:43 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:29 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm
Tashi delek,

Fear for something, has a cause, no doubt about it.

- Fear for the death / dying, is one well known example of it.
- Fear has many causes, or maybe only one cause ?

Guess that has something to do with the basic imprints and their changings / confrontations ?

What do you think ?
Fear is based on self-cherishing. Self-cherishing is based on an ignorance of how we truly exist.
Tashi delek G,

If i have fear to commit to kill for instance, is that born from self-cherishing or from knowing?
The best meditation is no meditation

Varis
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Re: Fear

Post by Varis » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:02 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:43 pm
Tashi delek G,

If i have fear to commit to kill for instance, is that born from self-cherishing or from knowing?
I think it's still self-cherishing because the motivation is still fear about what will happen to us if we engage in an unwholesome action. This might be a step towards compassion, but it's not the same thing.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Fear

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:09 pm

Varis wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:02 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:43 pm
Tashi delek G,

If i have fear to commit to kill for instance, is that born from self-cherishing or from knowing?
I think it's still self-cherishing because the motivation is still fear about what will happen to us if we engage in an unwholesome action. This might be a step towards compassion, but it's not the same thing.
Tashi selek V,

Self cherishing is something due to ego, but not to kill is born out of recognizing some how.
In this case "memory", is imo an important factor.
If then compassion is the accompanying factor, that is what i doubt.
The best meditation is no meditation

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Grigoris
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Re: Fear

Post by Grigoris » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:22 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:09 pm
Self cherishing is something due to ego,
No, self cherishing is not due to ego. There is no such thing as an ego, there are the five skandha and a mistaken interpretation of those as an ego.
...but not to kill is born out of recognizing some how.
No. Some people do not kill for fear of consequences (mainly legal) and no other reason than that. You see this quite clearly during periods of lawlessness.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Fear

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:52 am

I've always wondered if fear is just defined as another version of aversion in Buddhist terms - this is what i've always assumed.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

Varis
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Re: Fear

Post by Varis » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:48 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:09 pm
Tashi selek V,

Self cherishing is something due to ego, but not to kill is born out of recognizing some how.
In this case "memory", is imo an important factor.
If then compassion is the accompanying factor, that is what i doubt.
I think most people don't physically harm others not because of fear, but because of sympathy. BUT, I would not classify that as a bodhisattva's compassion. Fear might come into the equation in regards to the person feeling fear that the other person might be harmed.

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Ayu
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Re: Fear

Post by Ayu » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:09 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:52 am
I've always wondered if fear is just defined as another version of aversion in Buddhist terms - this is what i've always assumed.
Yes, I heard so. (Forgot where I heard it. Probably in Lamrim teachings.)

Fear is another form of aversion. Hate and fear are connected.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Fear

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:18 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm
Tashi delek,

Fear for something, has a cause, no doubt about it.

- Fear for the death / dying, is one well known example of it.
- Fear has many causes, or maybe only one cause ?

Guess that has something to do with the basic imprints and their changings / confrontations ?

What do you think ?

in samantabhadra/kuntuzangpo prayer can be read:
...When external objects appear, the subtle consciousness of fear will arise.
From this fear, the habit of anger becomes stronger and stronger.
Finally, hostility comes causing violence and murder.
When the fruition of this anger ripens, you will suffer in hell
by boiling and burning...
fear might be consequence of a failure
what are you doing

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Fear

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:02 am

you say you have fear, but what exactly are you afraid of?
...getting caught and punished
...unfavorable rebirth
...becoming unhealthy
...losing wealth
...losing respect of others
...losing your mind and going mad

All of these things are some kind of consequence to actions.
This list is infinite. People are afraid of all kinds of things.

So, I always ask, "if that consequence occurs, then what?
Sometimes, people fear things, believing that the consequences are worse than they are.

Ultimately, all fear is a manifestation of attachment to the experience of a self.
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Profile Picture: "The Fo Ming (Buddha Bright) Monk"
People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.

amanitamusc
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Re: Fear

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:44 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:18 am
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm
Tashi delek,

Fear for something, has a cause, no doubt about it.

- Fear for the death / dying, is one well known example of it.
- Fear has many causes, or maybe only one cause ?

Guess that has something to do with the basic imprints and their changings / confrontations ?

What do you think ?



in samantabhadra/kuntuzangpo prayer can be read:
...When external objects appear, the subtle consciousness of fear will arise.
From this fear, the habit of anger becomes stronger and stronger.
Finally, hostility comes causing violence and murder.
When the fruition of this anger ripens, you will suffer in hell
by boiling and burning...
fear might be consequence of a failure
This is the first thing i thought of when i read this thread.The Kuntuzangpo prayer
as it references fear. :good:

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Fear

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:33 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:18 am
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm
Tashi delek,

Fear for something, has a cause, no doubt about it.

- Fear for the death / dying, is one well known example of it.
- Fear has many causes, or maybe only one cause ?

Guess that has something to do with the basic imprints and their changings / confrontations ?

What do you think ?

in samantabhadra/kuntuzangpo prayer can be read:
...When external objects appear, the subtle consciousness of fear will arise.
From this fear, the habit of anger becomes stronger and stronger.
Finally, hostility comes causing violence and murder.
When the fruition of this anger ripens, you will suffer in hell
by boiling and burning...
fear might be consequence of a failure

Tashi delek J.E,

Thanks for your reply.

Agree, it is this fear which is dormant sleeping in the sub-consciousness and because of not recognizing external as internal visions one run away from the lights etc.

- Can one call this the basic fear ?

Guess in that sub-consciousness are dormant, many fears like for spiders etc.
So memory and karma plays here an important role and sure like i saw above, it is connected to the wrong self or ego.
The best meditation is no meditation

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Fear

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:36 am

Varis wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:48 am


I think most people don't physically harm others not because of fear, but because of sympathy. BUT, I would not classify that as a bodhisattva's compassion. Fear might come into the equation in regards to the person feeling fear that the other person might be harmed.
Tashi delek V,

Guess because fear is there , there must be evidence from that fear in the sub-consciousness, which the person feels and cannot bring into logic and words etc.
The person "knows" that because he/she killed one time, there is punishment like mind made hell etc., then fear arises to commit the same illusion.
The best meditation is no meditation

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javier.espinoza.t
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Location: Chile

Re: Fear

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:37 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:33 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:18 am
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm
Tashi delek,

Fear for something, has a cause, no doubt about it.

- Fear for the death / dying, is one well known example of it.
- Fear has many causes, or maybe only one cause ?

Guess that has something to do with the basic imprints and their changings / confrontations ?

What do you think ?

in samantabhadra/kuntuzangpo prayer can be read:
...When external objects appear, the subtle consciousness of fear will arise.
From this fear, the habit of anger becomes stronger and stronger.
Finally, hostility comes causing violence and murder.
When the fruition of this anger ripens, you will suffer in hell
by boiling and burning...
fear might be consequence of a failure

Tashi delek J.E,

Thanks for your reply.

Agree, it is this fear which is dormant sleeping in the sub-consciousness and because of not recognizing external as internal visions one run away from the lights etc.

- Can one call this the basic fear ?

Guess in that sub-consciousness are dormant, many fears like for spiders etc.
So memory and karma plays here an important role and sure like i saw above, it is connected to the wrong self or ego.
i feel this is the root or basic fear. i suggest to do experiments on this, not only intelectual study :)
what are you doing

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Fear

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:51 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:37 am
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:33 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:18 am



in samantabhadra/kuntuzangpo prayer can be read:



fear might be consequence of a failure

Tashi delek J.E,

Thanks for your reply.

Agree, it is this fear which is dormant sleeping in the sub-consciousness and because of not recognizing external as internal visions one run away from the lights etc.

- Can one call this the basic fear ?

Guess in that sub-consciousness are dormant, many fears like for spiders etc.
So memory and karma plays here an important role and sure like i saw above, it is connected to the wrong self or ego.
i feel this is the root or basic fear. i suggest to do experiments on this, not only intelectual study :)

Tashi delek,


Agree it is the most important fear, to have fear for one´s own" visions", during the Bardo of dying.
Sure we do in Dzogchen and elswhere, some practice to get these illusions (self) liberated.
The best meditation is no meditation

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