Response to Bernie

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
User avatar
Manju
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:51 am

Response to Bernie

Post by Manju » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:33 am

Is this being already discussed here on the forum ?

Cannot find anything reg.:

Response to Bernie from Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

http://howdidithappen.org/dzongsar-jamy ... -buddhism/

Manju

User avatar
Josef
Posts: 2259
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Josef » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:54 pm

This is by far the most skillful piece of writing he has publicly shared in a while.
It is quite refreshing to see.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Jeff H
Posts: 891
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:56 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Jeff H » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:59 pm

The real gem here, for me, is in the lengthy discussion in the comments. I found both sides to be very thoughtfully presented, and without ad hominem attacks. I have no personal connection to the Rigpa/Sogyal Rinpoche situation, but the arguments contained some very worthwhile considerations about buddhadharma in general and especially its western re-formation.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by DGA » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:20 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:59 pm
The real gem here, for me, is in the lengthy discussion in the comments. I found both sides to be very thoughtfully presented, and without ad hominem attacks. I have no personal connection to the Rigpa/Sogyal Rinpoche situation, but the arguments contained some very worthwhile considerations about buddhadharma in general and especially its western re-formation.
The comments are definitely worth the time to explore. And not only the fun one by "Pete"

User avatar
weitsicht
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:47 pm
Location: Right Here and Now

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:00 pm

Thanks for showing, Manju
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

PeterC
Posts: 626
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by PeterC » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:20 am

He skirts one issue. DJKR has a few times cast doubt on Sogyal's qualifications as a guru, and here he raises additional doubts on whether samaya really existed between Sogyal and his students on the grounds that it wasn't a properly-informed choice on the students' part. All reasonable arguments. However in the absence of empowerment there's no samaya, so in the absence of samaya there's no empowerment. So any Vajrayana practice done on the basis of the teachings received from Sogyal would be a waste of time. The Rigpa sangha received countless empowerments from highly respected lamas, and have plenty of other things they would have practiced profitably. But Tendrel Nyesel? Less clear.

User avatar
Manju
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:51 am

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Manju » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:05 am

Hi all,

thanks for contributing to this discussion.

I am not regularly on this forum and got the feeling that something serious must have happened around the whole issue if the Bernie - answer is not talked about here, lol.

Josef wrote: `This is by far the most skillful piece of writing he has publicly shared in a while.`

This is exactly what I felt while reading it.
To the extent that I thought somebody else was writing it to express DKR`s attitude in a better way than he himself would do.

I am positively influenced by DKR`s teachings since many years, attended his teachings here in Kathmandu last May.

Am happy that things have taken a turn for the better, otherwise frankly, I would be confused.

I am saying this as a Vajrayana practitioner, usually not being bothered by any stuff which seems strange to a (especially Western) student.

My point is that DKR`s posts previous to the Bernie writing lacked.......compassion, love and kindness.

As much as I understand why he acted like this, it should not have happened.

That`s my humble view on the topic.

Manju

User avatar
weitsicht
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:47 pm
Location: Right Here and Now

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:34 am

Manju wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:05 am
I am not regularly on this forum and got the feeling that something serious must have happened around the whole issue if the Bernie - answer is not talked about here, lol.
Action and Re-action cannot be foreseen easily (in this Forum). Can just be that weather is too nice, chewing gum is chewn out, or else. Who knows?
Manju wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:05 am
Am happy that things have taken a turn for the better, otherwise frankly, I would be confused.

I am saying this as a Vajrayana practitioner, usually not being bothered by any stuff which seems strange to a (especially Western) student.
As a Vajrayana practitioner, how come you differentiate in better and worse. How sure are you that this is better?

I for my part take the ironic post of "Pete" for a gem in which much truth may lie.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

User avatar
Manju
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:51 am

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Manju » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:23 am

Seemingly better.

Always seemingly.

Manju

User avatar
weitsicht
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:47 pm
Location: Right Here and Now

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:56 pm

here's the Dharma Mati Recording
https://youtu.be/NWcjJzmOKQk
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

User avatar
Josef
Posts: 2259
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Josef » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:27 pm

weitsicht wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:56 pm
here's the Dharma Mati Recording
https://youtu.be/NWcjJzmOKQk
I just started watching this and its refreshing to see that he openly acknowledges how his recent responses to the issues have been troublesome. Im looking forward to watching more when I have the time.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Simon E.
Posts: 5637
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Simon E. » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:35 pm

DGA wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:20 pm
Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:59 pm
The real gem here, for me, is in the lengthy discussion in the comments. I found both sides to be very thoughtfully presented, and without ad hominem attacks. I have no personal connection to the Rigpa/Sogyal Rinpoche situation, but the arguments contained some very worthwhile considerations about buddhadharma in general and especially its western re-formation.
The comments are definitely worth the time to explore. And not only the fun one by "Pete"
Interesting..I don't hear any 'fun' there at all. Just a cold, clear, and deadly skewering.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18243
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Grigoris » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:39 pm

As for the issue of samaya, here is a photo of everybody's favorite villain in the role of vajra master...
SR_NKR_wang.JPG
SR_NKR_wang.JPG (23.77 KiB) Viewed 1125 times
...quote clearly he engaged in giving wang.

Now whether they were valid or not is a different story.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:44 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:39 pm
As for the issue of samaya, here is a photo of everybody's favorite villain in the role of vajra master...
Image

...quote clearly he engaged in giving wang.

Now whether they were valid or not is a different story.

I think it is more likely that he is receiving an empowerment in this picture.
Last edited by dzogchungpa on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
heart
Posts: 4489
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by heart » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:45 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:39 pm
As for the issue of samaya, here is a photo of everybody's favorite villain in the role of vajra master...

SR_NKR_wang.JPG

...quote clearly he engaged in giving wang.

Now whether they were valid or not is a different story.
I think he is taking an empowerment rather than giving it in that picture. However, he has been giving at least one empowerment to the Rigpa sangha which can be easily seen on rigpa wiki.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18243
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Grigoris » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:46 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:44 pm
I think it is more likely that he is receiving an empowerment in this picture.
;) http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... gpa_Sangha
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by DGA » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:58 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:35 pm
DGA wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:20 pm
Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:59 pm
The real gem here, for me, is in the lengthy discussion in the comments. I found both sides to be very thoughtfully presented, and without ad hominem attacks. I have no personal connection to the Rigpa/Sogyal Rinpoche situation, but the arguments contained some very worthwhile considerations about buddhadharma in general and especially its western re-formation.
The comments are definitely worth the time to explore. And not only the fun one by "Pete"
Interesting..I don't hear any 'fun' there at all. Just a cold, clear, and deadly skewering.
I was using the word "fun" in a facetious sense, or at least trying to. That didn't come across in my post. My read on Pete's remarks is the same as yours.

Simon E.
Posts: 5637
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Simon E. » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Sorry DGA my ironydar was not functioning. :D
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

User avatar
Manju
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:51 am

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Manju » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:04 am

Thanks for posting the info about the Berlin-video.
Just started watching it.

DJKR looks frail and where is his one leg ???

What a burden to prove to the world that what Buddha taught actually works.

:bow: :bow: :bow:

Manju

PeterC
Posts: 626
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by PeterC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:40 am

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:39 pm
As for the issue of samaya, here is a photo of everybody's favorite villain in the role of vajra master...

SR_NKR_wang.JPG

...quote clearly he engaged in giving wang.

Now whether they were valid or not is a different story.
No way is Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche receiving an empowerment from Sogyal. Cannot believe that...

Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: deff, heart, Majestic-12 [Bot], Tata1, WeiHan and 71 guests