Response to Bernie

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Manju
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Response to Bernie

Post by Manju »

Is this being already discussed here on the forum ?

Cannot find anything reg.:

Response to Bernie from Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

http://howdidithappen.org/dzongsar-jamy ... -buddhism/

Manju
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Josef
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Josef »

This is by far the most skillful piece of writing he has publicly shared in a while.
It is quite refreshing to see.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Jeff H
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Jeff H »

The real gem here, for me, is in the lengthy discussion in the comments. I found both sides to be very thoughtfully presented, and without ad hominem attacks. I have no personal connection to the Rigpa/Sogyal Rinpoche situation, but the arguments contained some very worthwhile considerations about buddhadharma in general and especially its western re-formation.
Where now is my mind engaged? - Shantideva
DGA
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by DGA »

Jeff H wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:59 pm The real gem here, for me, is in the lengthy discussion in the comments. I found both sides to be very thoughtfully presented, and without ad hominem attacks. I have no personal connection to the Rigpa/Sogyal Rinpoche situation, but the arguments contained some very worthwhile considerations about buddhadharma in general and especially its western re-formation.
The comments are definitely worth the time to explore. And not only the fun one by "Pete"
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weitsicht
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht »

Thanks for showing, Manju
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
PeterC
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by PeterC »

He skirts one issue. DJKR has a few times cast doubt on Sogyal's qualifications as a guru, and here he raises additional doubts on whether samaya really existed between Sogyal and his students on the grounds that it wasn't a properly-informed choice on the students' part. All reasonable arguments. However in the absence of empowerment there's no samaya, so in the absence of samaya there's no empowerment. So any Vajrayana practice done on the basis of the teachings received from Sogyal would be a waste of time. The Rigpa sangha received countless empowerments from highly respected lamas, and have plenty of other things they would have practiced profitably. But Tendrel Nyesel? Less clear.
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Manju
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Manju »

Hi all,

thanks for contributing to this discussion.

I am not regularly on this forum and got the feeling that something serious must have happened around the whole issue if the Bernie - answer is not talked about here, lol.

Josef wrote: `This is by far the most skillful piece of writing he has publicly shared in a while.`

This is exactly what I felt while reading it.
To the extent that I thought somebody else was writing it to express DKR`s attitude in a better way than he himself would do.

I am positively influenced by DKR`s teachings since many years, attended his teachings here in Kathmandu last May.

Am happy that things have taken a turn for the better, otherwise frankly, I would be confused.

I am saying this as a Vajrayana practitioner, usually not being bothered by any stuff which seems strange to a (especially Western) student.

My point is that DKR`s posts previous to the Bernie writing lacked.......compassion, love and kindness.

As much as I understand why he acted like this, it should not have happened.

That`s my humble view on the topic.

Manju
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weitsicht
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht »

Manju wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:05 am I am not regularly on this forum and got the feeling that something serious must have happened around the whole issue if the Bernie - answer is not talked about here, lol.
Action and Re-action cannot be foreseen easily (in this Forum). Can just be that weather is too nice, chewing gum is chewn out, or else. Who knows?
Manju wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:05 am Am happy that things have taken a turn for the better, otherwise frankly, I would be confused.

I am saying this as a Vajrayana practitioner, usually not being bothered by any stuff which seems strange to a (especially Western) student.
As a Vajrayana practitioner, how come you differentiate in better and worse. How sure are you that this is better?

I for my part take the ironic post of "Pete" for a gem in which much truth may lie.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
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Manju
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Manju »

Seemingly better.

Always seemingly.

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weitsicht
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht »

here's the Dharma Mati Recording
https://youtu.be/NWcjJzmOKQk
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
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Josef
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Josef »

weitsicht wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:56 pm here's the Dharma Mati Recording
https://youtu.be/NWcjJzmOKQk
I just started watching this and its refreshing to see that he openly acknowledges how his recent responses to the issues have been troublesome. Im looking forward to watching more when I have the time.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Simon E.
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Simon E. »

DGA wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:20 pm
Jeff H wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:59 pm The real gem here, for me, is in the lengthy discussion in the comments. I found both sides to be very thoughtfully presented, and without ad hominem attacks. I have no personal connection to the Rigpa/Sogyal Rinpoche situation, but the arguments contained some very worthwhile considerations about buddhadharma in general and especially its western re-formation.
The comments are definitely worth the time to explore. And not only the fun one by "Pete"
Interesting..I don't hear any 'fun' there at all. Just a cold, clear, and deadly skewering.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Grigoris
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Grigoris »

As for the issue of samaya, here is a photo of everybody's favorite villain in the role of vajra master...
SR_NKR_wang.JPG
SR_NKR_wang.JPG (23.77 KiB) Viewed 3892 times
...quote clearly he engaged in giving wang.

Now whether they were valid or not is a different story.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by dzogchungpa »

Grigoris wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:39 pm As for the issue of samaya, here is a photo of everybody's favorite villain in the role of vajra master...
Image

...quote clearly he engaged in giving wang.

Now whether they were valid or not is a different story.

I think it is more likely that he is receiving an empowerment in this picture.
Last edited by dzogchungpa on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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heart
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by heart »

Grigoris wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:39 pm As for the issue of samaya, here is a photo of everybody's favorite villain in the role of vajra master...

SR_NKR_wang.JPG

...quote clearly he engaged in giving wang.

Now whether they were valid or not is a different story.
I think he is taking an empowerment rather than giving it in that picture. However, he has been giving at least one empowerment to the Rigpa sangha which can be easily seen on rigpa wiki.

/magnus
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Grigoris
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Grigoris »

dzogchungpa wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:44 pmI think it is more likely that he is receiving an empowerment in this picture.
;) http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... gpa_Sangha
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
DGA
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by DGA »

Simon E. wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:35 pm
DGA wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:20 pm
Jeff H wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:59 pm The real gem here, for me, is in the lengthy discussion in the comments. I found both sides to be very thoughtfully presented, and without ad hominem attacks. I have no personal connection to the Rigpa/Sogyal Rinpoche situation, but the arguments contained some very worthwhile considerations about buddhadharma in general and especially its western re-formation.
The comments are definitely worth the time to explore. And not only the fun one by "Pete"
Interesting..I don't hear any 'fun' there at all. Just a cold, clear, and deadly skewering.
I was using the word "fun" in a facetious sense, or at least trying to. That didn't come across in my post. My read on Pete's remarks is the same as yours.
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Simon E. »

Sorry DGA my ironydar was not functioning. :D
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Manju
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Manju »

Thanks for posting the info about the Berlin-video.
Just started watching it.

DJKR looks frail and where is his one leg ???

What a burden to prove to the world that what Buddha taught actually works.

:bow: :bow: :bow:

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PeterC
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by PeterC »

Grigoris wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:39 pm As for the issue of samaya, here is a photo of everybody's favorite villain in the role of vajra master...

SR_NKR_wang.JPG

...quote clearly he engaged in giving wang.

Now whether they were valid or not is a different story.
No way is Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche receiving an empowerment from Sogyal. Cannot believe that...
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