Not been feeling like attending dharma events

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Ayu
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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Ayu » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:14 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:42 pm
... but i can speak for my experience that the more empowerments/transmisions you get, the more tools you have.
This is my expeience as well regarding Kriya Tantra. For HYT I'm not sure yet, if it is equally beneficial to have many empowerments.

Sometimes I have a kind of lazyness or internal obstacles and then I don't like to meet so many people. But I go, because I think this is a precious time in my life that I am able to meet my teacher and his students. I'm healthy, the courses/teachings take place in my town. Some people travel 1000 km to see my teacher - and I just need to go by bike 25 minutes. So, I think all these circumstances imply: Now is the time!
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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Aryjna » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:22 pm

Ayu wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:14 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:42 pm
... but i can speak for my experience that the more empowerments/transmisions you get, the more tools you have.
This is my expeience as well regarding Kriya Tantra. For HYT I'm not sure yet, if it is equally beneficial to have many empowerments.

Sometimes I have a kind of lazyness or internal obstacles and then I don't like to meet so many people. But I go, because I think this is a precious time in my life that I am able to meet my teacher and his students. I'm healthy, the courses/teachings take place in my town. Some people travel 1000 km to see my teacher - and I just need to go by bike 25 minutes. So, I think all these circumstances imply: Now is the time!
It would be good to get some authoritative quotes from texts or specific teachers about whether it is good to seek many empowerments or not. I have the impression that it is, but I don't think I have ever seen it being stated clearly.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Simon E. » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:58 pm

I cannot furnish quotes on the subject.

I can recount as accurately as possible the fact that my first teacher made a point of confronting those who he perceived as indulging in 'spiritual shopping' for wangs.

Different teachers tend to emphasise different aspects of the Buddhadharma. And different aspects to different students.
Last edited by Simon E. on Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:23 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:22 pm
Ayu wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:14 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:42 pm
... but i can speak for my experience that the more empowerments/transmisions you get, the more tools you have.
This is my expeience as well regarding Kriya Tantra. For HYT I'm not sure yet, if it is equally beneficial to have many empowerments.

Sometimes I have a kind of lazyness or internal obstacles and then I don't like to meet so many people. But I go, because I think this is a precious time in my life that I am able to meet my teacher and his students. I'm healthy, the courses/teachings take place in my town. Some people travel 1000 km to see my teacher - and I just need to go by bike 25 minutes. So, I think all these circumstances imply: Now is the time!
It would be good to get some authoritative quotes from texts or specific teachers about whether it is good to seek many empowerments or not. I have the impression that it is, but I don't think I have ever seen it being stated clearly.
i tryied to mean that saddhanas are like tools
also that a few tool are in general good for many many applications, in the same way a a few initiations are enough for many circumstances.

i'm not pretending nor advising to have a collection of them just for having them :rolling: maybe tools are a bad analogy xD

many times i heared and readed ChNN advicing that we, his students, should apply according to our needs and inclinations; maybe that's why he gives lungs and have prepared so much materials through time.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Aryjna » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:00 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:23 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:22 pm
Ayu wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:14 pm

This is my expeience as well regarding Kriya Tantra. For HYT I'm not sure yet, if it is equally beneficial to have many empowerments.

Sometimes I have a kind of lazyness or internal obstacles and then I don't like to meet so many people. But I go, because I think this is a precious time in my life that I am able to meet my teacher and his students. I'm healthy, the courses/teachings take place in my town. Some people travel 1000 km to see my teacher - and I just need to go by bike 25 minutes. So, I think all these circumstances imply: Now is the time!
It would be good to get some authoritative quotes from texts or specific teachers about whether it is good to seek many empowerments or not. I have the impression that it is, but I don't think I have ever seen it being stated clearly.
i tryied to mean that saddhanas are like tools
also that a few tool are in general good for many many applications, in the same way a a few initiations are enough for many circumstances.

i'm not pretending nor advising to have a collection of them just for having them :rolling: maybe tools are a bad analogy xD

many times i heared and readed ChNN advicing that we, his students, should apply according to our needs and inclinations; maybe that's why he gives lungs and have prepared so much materials through time.
Yes, he gives various lungs, but he doesn't give empowerments very often. I think this is mostly a matter of time, but in some of his books it is suggested to get specific empowerments, which he does not give as far as I am aware. Or even if he does it is rare enough that you may not get the chance due to distance or other reasons. I'd like to know if he thinks it is beneficial to receive empowerments, or if it is not necessarily that useful.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:43 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:00 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:23 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:22 pm


It would be good to get some authoritative quotes from texts or specific teachers about whether it is good to seek many empowerments or not. I have the impression that it is, but I don't think I have ever seen it being stated clearly.
i tryied to mean that saddhanas are like tools
also that a few tool are in general good for many many applications, in the same way a a few initiations are enough for many circumstances.

i'm not pretending nor advising to have a collection of them just for having them :rolling: maybe tools are a bad analogy xD

many times i heared and readed ChNN advicing that we, his students, should apply according to our needs and inclinations; maybe that's why he gives lungs and have prepared so much materials through time.
Yes, he gives various lungs, but he doesn't give empowerments very often. I think this is mostly a matter of time, but in some of his books it is suggested to get specific empowerments, which he does not give as far as I am aware. Or even if he does it is rare enough that you may not get the chance due to distance or other reasons. I'd like to know if he thinks it is beneficial to receive empowerments, or if it is not necessarily that useful.
hmm i see, in general ChNN says that if you have too many empowerments and you don't know what to do with all those commitements (often gives the "Kalachakra is not Hevajra" example). practicing guruyoga you satisfice them all.

So from this, i understand that empowerments are up to you, to what you need really, what "moves you more". personally think that collecting indiscriminately them in a sangha tourism attitude is very disrespectful to the vajrayana.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:47 pm

There are a few particular empowerments suggested in the Precious Vase.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Aryjna » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:13 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:47 pm
There are a few particular empowerments suggested in the Precious Vase.
Yes, that is what i was referring to.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by MiphamFan » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:05 pm

IMO, the main issue with receiving many empowerments is that you form samaya connections with teachers whom you really don't know that well.

So far I think I've been very fortunate to meet with good teachers, even if I know some better than others, but recent events made me more and more reluctant to form any new connections with teachers I might not really have the opportunity to learn more about outside of short meetings once a year and with whom I cannot really converse directly.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:12 pm

MiphamFan wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:05 pm
IMO, the main issue with receiving many empowerments is that you form samaya connections with teachers whom you really don't know that well.

So far I think I've been very fortunate to meet with good teachers, even if I know some better than others, but recent events made me more and more reluctant to form any new connections with teachers I might not really have the opportunity to learn more about outside of short meetings once a year and with whom I cannot really converse directly.
This bothers many teachers too. Thrangu Rinpoche has spoken of the phenomenon of westerners coming for empowerments with no intention of developing a relationship..he said that he had never experienced this until his first visit to the UK and he was taken aback..
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Ayu » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:33 pm

MiphamFan wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:05 pm
IMO, the main issue with receiving many empowerments is that you form samaya connections with teachers whom you really don't know that well.
...
I see. This is not the case with me and my teacher. He has got a lot of empowerments and he shares them. I like to attend them.
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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:09 pm

Within my Sakya group, empowerments are something you do for the experience and blessing, and not all have detailed commitments. I'm sure everyone would agree that empowerments are profound experiences. I've had a couple that completely changed things for me. I've also done a number with no comittments or very basic ones, but I only go if I feel a connection and wish to deepen it. I am less interested in taking on more tantric practices generally, but the connection made by empowerment itself is a different deal.
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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Ogyen » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:17 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:09 pm
Within my Sakya group, empowerments are something you do for the experience and blessing, and not all have detailed commitments. I'm sure everyone would agree that empowerments are profound experiences. I've had a couple that completely changed things for me. I've also done a number with no comittments or very basic ones, but I only go if I feel a connection and wish to deepen it. I am less interested in taking on more tantric practices generally, but the connection made by empowerment itself is a different deal.
Totally!!

And then there's the ones that you also really feel the commitment. Or at least I did with a couple.
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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:22 pm

As Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche says in "Pure Appearance":
As Guru Rinpoche said, "lf one receives an empowerment every year, and in a hundred years one receives a hundred empowerments, even if one is reborn as an animal, one will be a very powerful animal." If one receives one empowerment every year, through these empowerments one's merit and windhorse will increase and one's obscurations will be purified. When those who have received empowerments die, even if they are reborn as animals, they will be born as powerful animals, such as lions or elephants. They will never be born as weak and lowly animals. If one receives many empowerments now, even if one does not practice the development and completion stages, if one keeps samaya, at death one will be reborn in a place where the secret-mantra doctrine flourishes. Then again one can receive empowerments, practice the secret mantra, and attain the state of buddhahood within seven lifetimes. Such are the qualities of empowerment.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:09 pm

So another confirmation ..every valley a Lama. Every Lama a dharma. :smile:

Which figures. Do we expect uniformity?
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by weitsicht » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:51 pm

My teacher names other ones he recommends to see. He emphasizes that different people present the dharma differently and one approach may be more accessible to someone than another.

However, stick with one yana once committed, I may bore you guys but this I think is a very important point.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:23 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:09 pm
So another confirmation ..every valley a Lama. Every Lama a dharma. :smile:

Which figures. Do we expect uniformity?
I'm not sure if it's such a sharp contrast in opinions between Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche and Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche on this topic. My impression from your quote from Trungpa Rinpoche about the "spiritual marketplace" is that he is discouraging people from "shopping around" too much with different Dharma lineages and practices. The key point is what is the intention of continuing to receive empowerments and transmissions? I think it's totally possible to continue to receive empowerments and transmissions without intending to abandon one's practices after some short period of time, before accomplishing them. One possibility is that the person is just receiving the same empowerments over and over again. Or they are receiving other empowerments as blessings with no intentions of abandoning their committed practices. Or... the list goes on. Now if someone is just receiving new empowerments constantly, jumping around from one practice to another with no accomplishment and no commitment, that is certainly a problem.

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Re: Not been feeling like attending dharma events

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:32 pm

MiphamFan wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:36 am

I am really curious about those who establish some kind of close relationship with a lama living near them -- did you go to all the regular pujas and so on before they started to accept you and teach you?
No but...

My teacher started guiding me closely just because I was showing up to his ngondro classes. But this was a fairly small sangha at the time. Very often, it was literally just me and my teacher at the ngondro class. It was great.

Eventually I started to go to the pujas on the 10th and 25th regularly and I continue to do so. I also go to some other regular pujas as well. My teacher doesn't really hold back from people that don't go to the pujas. But I do feel my relationship is closer with him because of how frequently I am there and helping out with things. I don't think my relationship would be the way it is without having attended pujas and such. It seems to have been important in my relationship with my teacher, and I'm glad that I've done it.

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