Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

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pael
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by pael » Mon May 28, 2018 9:24 am

Is it bad karma to wish sooner death or to be killed? I have wished sooner death and to be killed to prevent breaking samaya. I have also prayed deities to kill me if I have broken samaya.
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

AJP
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by AJP » Tue May 29, 2018 1:57 am

Attachment and Aversion is the problem, or an obscuration of mind.

But the real problem is Self-Grasping.

The True Problem in Samsara at the Core is Self-Grasping.

We can Cling onto Attachment and Aversion today and tomorrow feel a greater sense of freedom once that obscuration has exhausted itself.

Most important thing is to keep practicing. Possibly practice something like Vajrasattva if having received the Empowerment if the concern is a damaged Samaya.

For me once you receive Samaya it lives in the mindstream, so Daily Practice is the most important thing.

Self-Grasping is the enemy. We don't like the circumstances now, we are Self-Grasping, onto the Bardo/Rebirth we are still Self-Grasping.

This is Samsara, Self-Grasping is the Root of Delusion and is always deceiving us as it is entirely Samsaric Mind.

I thought it was like this, now it seems like that.

You could always follow Pure Land teaching, as it is main quality is Merciful Compassion. Also Simplicity.

AlexanderS
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by AlexanderS » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm

I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.

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Grigoris
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by Grigoris » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:06 pm

AlexanderS wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm
I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
We are all stuck, that is why we practice.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Crazywisdom
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:14 pm

AlexanderS wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm
I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
Vajrayana takes Buddhahood as the path, the trikaya. So the body is precious deity and the world and environment is pure as if made of pure gold. So there’s no this life or the next, there’s just purity and radiance.

My understanding is negative conditions should be seen on par with signs and wonders, as if the prediction of Buddhahood us being made by the Sangha.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.

lobsangrinchen
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by lobsangrinchen » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:17 pm

AlexanderS wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm
I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
practice is what can help you build some strength and understanding and insight to get "unstuck".

suicide is always a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

the struggle is real. sometimes it may seem like the only thing that's real....

study, contemplate, meditate.

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Grigoris
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by Grigoris » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:57 pm

lobsangrinchen wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:17 pm
suicide is always a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
It is not a permanent solution as there are future lives to consider. In Buddhism the only permanent solution is enlightenment. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

pemachophel
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by pemachophel » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:04 pm

"I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life..."

Wow! That's really wonderful. You don't realize how fortunate you are to have such disgust for/renunciation of samsara. This feeling of not being able to take life any more is a great foundation for the practice of Dharma. If only others understood how completely hopeless our samsaric lives are. We are all absolutely trapped in the same bind as you. The difference is that you are recognizing and feeling this bind in a way most others do not.

Given this feeling of dissatisfaction and frustration with samsara, simply practice at whatever level you can. The Dharma is our only way out of this dilemma.

Further, it doesn't matter if you think you can or think you can't. We don't have any other choice.

Good luck & best wishes from someone else who's been blessed to see samsara as a pit of vipers.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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heart
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by heart » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:15 pm

AlexanderS wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm
I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
Please, you have this possibility to practice, don't lose it. Samsara and its suffering is endless. Killing yourself will not help, just make it worse.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

lobsangrinchen
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by lobsangrinchen » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:57 pm
lobsangrinchen wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:17 pm
suicide is always a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
It is not a permanent solution as there are future lives to consider. In Buddhism the only permanent solution is enlightenment. ;)
I agree 100% Grigoris :twothumbsup: but in the case of all us unenlightened sentient beings still caught in the web of samsara - this is still good advice. I have had no less than four close friends and family members commit suicide this year, it's been quite the lesson on impermanence and suffering. Very grateful I have been able to connect with my teacher and Dharma friends from over the years to help, and I wish I could help someone like the OP even a little....but I also know just how powerless I am.

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Queequeg
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:11 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:04 pm
"I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life..."

Wow! That's really wonderful. You don't realize how fortunate you are to have such disgust for/renunciation of samsara. This feeling of not being able to take life any more is a great foundation for the practice of Dharma. If only others understood how completely hopeless our samsaric lives are. We are all absolutely trapped in the same bind as you. The difference is that you are recognizing and feeling this bind in a way most others do not.

Given this feeling of dissatisfaction and frustration with samsara, simply practice at whatever level you can. The Dharma is our only way out of this dilemma.

Further, it doesn't matter if you think you can or think you can't. We don't have any other choice.

Good luck & best wishes from someone else who's been blessed to see samsara as a pit of vipers.
Is saying one lacks the strength and appetite to go through this life the same as the Buddha's renunciation? Especially when the notion of suicide is spoken in the same breath? I don't recall any account of the Buddha expressing anything like this. In fact, when he realized his ascetic practices would likely kill him, he gave them up.

This sentiment does not sound like renunciation, it sounds like aversion and abandonment of diligence and vigor.

To the fellow admitting a lack of strength and appetite to continue, consider this precious human life in which you have the opportunity to practice and make headway on the path. I am going to guess the things that you are tired of and have exhausted you are just the circumstances of your conditioned life. Those circumstances are impermanent. If you wish to proceed to the place of bodhi, you'll need to make effort. Sooner or later. Why not now? Never give up.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

AlexanderS
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Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition

Post by AlexanderS » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:10 am

heart wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:15 pm
AlexanderS wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm
I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
Please, you have this possibility to practice, don't lose it. Samsara and its suffering is endless. Killing yourself will not help, just make it worse.

/magnus
Hi Magnus, I have met you at gomde once! I don't feel I have the basic wellbeing to practice anymore. Of course in some circumstances surviving can be the practice. The burden of my mental and psychical health is just too heavy now. I just want to die in my sleep, which I can, if I want to. I obviously just don't want to go to hell.

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