Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
Is it bad karma to wish sooner death or to be killed? I have wished sooner death and to be killed to prevent breaking samaya. I have also prayed deities to kill me if I have broken samaya.
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
- Konchog Thogme Jampa
- Posts: 1175
- Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am
- Location: Saha World/Hard to Take
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
Attachment and Aversion is the problem, or an obscuration of mind.
But the real problem is Self-Grasping.
The True Problem in Samsara at the Core is Self-Grasping.
We can Cling onto Attachment and Aversion today and tomorrow feel a greater sense of freedom once that obscuration has exhausted itself.
Most important thing is to keep practicing. Possibly practice something like Vajrasattva if having received the Empowerment if the concern is a damaged Samaya.
For me once you receive Samaya it lives in the mindstream, so Daily Practice is the most important thing.
Self-Grasping is the enemy. We don't like the circumstances now, we are Self-Grasping, onto the Bardo/Rebirth we are still Self-Grasping.
This is Samsara, Self-Grasping is the Root of Delusion and is always deceiving us as it is entirely Samsaric Mind.
I thought it was like this, now it seems like that.
You could always follow Pure Land teaching, as it is main quality is Merciful Compassion. Also Simplicity.
But the real problem is Self-Grasping.
The True Problem in Samsara at the Core is Self-Grasping.
We can Cling onto Attachment and Aversion today and tomorrow feel a greater sense of freedom once that obscuration has exhausted itself.
Most important thing is to keep practicing. Possibly practice something like Vajrasattva if having received the Empowerment if the concern is a damaged Samaya.
For me once you receive Samaya it lives in the mindstream, so Daily Practice is the most important thing.
Self-Grasping is the enemy. We don't like the circumstances now, we are Self-Grasping, onto the Bardo/Rebirth we are still Self-Grasping.
This is Samsara, Self-Grasping is the Root of Delusion and is always deceiving us as it is entirely Samsaric Mind.
I thought it was like this, now it seems like that.
You could always follow Pure Land teaching, as it is main quality is Merciful Compassion. Also Simplicity.
-
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
We are all stuck, that is why we practice.AlexanderS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
Vajrayana takes Buddhahood as the path, the trikaya. So the body is precious deity and the world and environment is pure as if made of pure gold. So there’s no this life or the next, there’s just purity and radiance.AlexanderS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
My understanding is negative conditions should be seen on par with signs and wonders, as if the prediction of Buddhahood us being made by the Sangha.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
-
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:17 pm
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
practice is what can help you build some strength and understanding and insight to get "unstuck".AlexanderS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
suicide is always a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
the struggle is real. sometimes it may seem like the only thing that's real....
study, contemplate, meditate.
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
It is not a permanent solution as there are future lives to consider. In Buddhism the only permanent solution is enlightenment.lobsangrinchen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:17 pmsuicide is always a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
-
- Posts: 2229
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
- Location: Lafayette, CO
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
"I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life..."
Wow! That's really wonderful. You don't realize how fortunate you are to have such disgust for/renunciation of samsara. This feeling of not being able to take life any more is a great foundation for the practice of Dharma. If only others understood how completely hopeless our samsaric lives are. We are all absolutely trapped in the same bind as you. The difference is that you are recognizing and feeling this bind in a way most others do not.
Given this feeling of dissatisfaction and frustration with samsara, simply practice at whatever level you can. The Dharma is our only way out of this dilemma.
Further, it doesn't matter if you think you can or think you can't. We don't have any other choice.
Good luck & best wishes from someone else who's been blessed to see samsara as a pit of vipers.
Wow! That's really wonderful. You don't realize how fortunate you are to have such disgust for/renunciation of samsara. This feeling of not being able to take life any more is a great foundation for the practice of Dharma. If only others understood how completely hopeless our samsaric lives are. We are all absolutely trapped in the same bind as you. The difference is that you are recognizing and feeling this bind in a way most others do not.
Given this feeling of dissatisfaction and frustration with samsara, simply practice at whatever level you can. The Dharma is our only way out of this dilemma.
Further, it doesn't matter if you think you can or think you can't. We don't have any other choice.
Good luck & best wishes from someone else who's been blessed to see samsara as a pit of vipers.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
Please, you have this possibility to practice, don't lose it. Samsara and its suffering is endless. Killing yourself will not help, just make it worse.AlexanderS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
-
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:17 pm
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
I agree 100% Grigoris but in the case of all us unenlightened sentient beings still caught in the web of samsara - this is still good advice. I have had no less than four close friends and family members commit suicide this year, it's been quite the lesson on impermanence and suffering. Very grateful I have been able to connect with my teacher and Dharma friends from over the years to help, and I wish I could help someone like the OP even a little....but I also know just how powerless I am.Grigoris wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:57 pmIt is not a permanent solution as there are future lives to consider. In Buddhism the only permanent solution is enlightenment.lobsangrinchen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:17 pmsuicide is always a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
Is saying one lacks the strength and appetite to go through this life the same as the Buddha's renunciation? Especially when the notion of suicide is spoken in the same breath? I don't recall any account of the Buddha expressing anything like this. In fact, when he realized his ascetic practices would likely kill him, he gave them up.pemachophel wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:04 pm "I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life..."
Wow! That's really wonderful. You don't realize how fortunate you are to have such disgust for/renunciation of samsara. This feeling of not being able to take life any more is a great foundation for the practice of Dharma. If only others understood how completely hopeless our samsaric lives are. We are all absolutely trapped in the same bind as you. The difference is that you are recognizing and feeling this bind in a way most others do not.
Given this feeling of dissatisfaction and frustration with samsara, simply practice at whatever level you can. The Dharma is our only way out of this dilemma.
Further, it doesn't matter if you think you can or think you can't. We don't have any other choice.
Good luck & best wishes from someone else who's been blessed to see samsara as a pit of vipers.
This sentiment does not sound like renunciation, it sounds like aversion and abandonment of diligence and vigor.
To the fellow admitting a lack of strength and appetite to continue, consider this precious human life in which you have the opportunity to practice and make headway on the path. I am going to guess the things that you are tired of and have exhausted you are just the circumstances of your conditioned life. Those circumstances are impermanent. If you wish to proceed to the place of bodhi, you'll need to make effort. Sooner or later. Why not now? Never give up.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am
Re: Karmic consequences of suicide in the tibetan tradition
Hi Magnus, I have met you at gomde once! I don't feel I have the basic wellbeing to practice anymore. Of course in some circumstances surviving can be the practice. The burden of my mental and psychical health is just too heavy now. I just want to die in my sleep, which I can, if I want to. I obviously just don't want to go to hell.heart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:15 pmPlease, you have this possibility to practice, don't lose it. Samsara and its suffering is endless. Killing yourself will not help, just make it worse.AlexanderS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:20 pm I am really struggling with this.. I really do not have strengths and appetite to go through this life, but obivously I don't want to go vajrahell or any kind of hell for that matter. Im stuck.
/magnus