Hot vs. Cold Hells

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Jangchup Donden
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Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Jangchup Donden » Thu May 17, 2018 8:45 pm

It's said intense anger (and other things) lead to rebirth in the hell realms. But I haven't came across any explanation of what causes rebirth in a hot hell as opposed to a cold hell? Is this found anywhere?

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Aryjna
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Aryjna » Thu May 17, 2018 8:53 pm

Jangchup Donden wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:45 pm
It's said intense anger (and other things) lead to rebirth in the hell realms. But I haven't came across any explanation of what causes rebirth in a hot hell as opposed to a cold hell? Is this found anywhere?
In the Drops of Nectar commentary it says that actions like denying clothing to one's parents and others lead to the cold hells. For the hot hells only hatred is mentioned.

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu May 17, 2018 9:09 pm

Thats right, things like neglecting one's parents, adultery,etc lead to cold hells. Also theft, prostitution, nude modeling, etc.

Tiago Simões
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Tiago Simões » Thu May 17, 2018 9:42 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:09 pm
Thats right, things like neglecting one's parents, adultery,etc lead to cold hells. Also theft, prostitution, nude modeling, etc.
Nude modeling?
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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Grigoris
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Grigoris » Thu May 17, 2018 9:53 pm

Tiago Simões wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:09 pm
Thats right, things like neglecting one's parents, adultery,etc lead to cold hells. Also theft, prostitution, nude modeling, etc.
Nude modeling?
Damn! I was considering it as a career path! :tongue:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Jangchup Donden
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Jangchup Donden » Thu May 17, 2018 10:15 pm

Thanks, that's interesting!

Really sad to hear about the nude modeling though. :( No fun allowed in samsara.

Tiago Simões
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Tiago Simões » Thu May 17, 2018 10:32 pm

Hold on now... Is it nude modeling in general or just for money? :tongue:
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Fri May 18, 2018 12:03 am

It's hot hell by default, but it becomes cold hell if you forget to pay the utility bill
:rolling:
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by lelopa » Fri May 18, 2018 5:58 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:03 am
It's hot hell by default, but it becomes cold hell if you forget to pay the utility bill
:rolling:
:jumping:
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by amanitamusc » Fri May 18, 2018 6:54 am

Jangchup Donden wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:45 pm
It's said intense anger (and other things) lead to rebirth in the hell realms. But I haven't came across any explanation of what causes rebirth in a hot hell as opposed to a cold hell? Is this found anywhere?
Are you looking to focus your anger for a certain climate?

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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri May 18, 2018 7:44 am

I always figured that countries which were often too cold for comfort (e.g. Tibet) created cold hells and countries which were often too hot (e.g. the middle east) created hot hells.
But I always figured, too, that that was probably too simplistic. A couple of theoretical research papers do tackle the subject. Here's one of the shorter ones:
The Temperature of Hell

A thermodynamics professor had written a take home exam for his graduate students. It had one question:

"Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with a proof."

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however wrote the following:

First, we postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for souls entering hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to hell. Since, there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant.

So, if hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.

Of course, if hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, than the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.

It was not revealed what grade the student got.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Humor/hell.html

:popcorn:
Kim

Tenma
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Tenma » Fri May 18, 2018 7:52 am

Jangchup Donden wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:45 pm
It's said intense anger (and other things) lead to rebirth in the hell realms. But I haven't came across any explanation of what causes rebirth in a hot hell as opposed to a cold hell? Is this found anywhere?
Seems to be reasonable, especially among the Vikings with their goddess of death, Hel, ruling the Underworld with hells that are cold. And as the Vikings were often pretty violent, this does seem to make sense.

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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Fri May 18, 2018 11:09 am

Jangchup Donden wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:45 pm
It's said intense anger (and other things) lead to rebirth in the hell realms. But I haven't came across any explanation of what causes rebirth in a hot hell as opposed to a cold hell? Is this found anywhere?
Indiference -> cold
Hate -> hot

This is what i got from Barto Thodol commentaries
Identities are false and not true

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Grigoris
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Grigoris » Fri May 18, 2018 11:50 am

Some people, when angered, start to jump up and down, scream, throw things around, etc...

Some people, when angered, become reticent, closed, distant, unexpressive, etc...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri May 18, 2018 1:09 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 7:52 am
Jangchup Donden wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:45 pm
It's said intense anger (and other things) lead to rebirth in the hell realms. But I haven't came across any explanation of what causes rebirth in a hot hell as opposed to a cold hell? Is this found anywhere?
Seems to be reasonable, especially among the Vikings with their goddess of death, Hel, ruling the Underworld with hells that are cold. And as the Vikings were often pretty violent, this does seem to make sense.
As the Vikings were more likely to freeze to death than to die of thirst and heat-stroke, their choice makes sense in my terms too.

:popcorn:
Kim

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri May 18, 2018 1:18 pm

The New Yorker canvasses the issue:
...Former Vice-President Al Gore, who was among the first to raise concerns about this problem, convened an interdisciplinary gathering in December of 2008 to discuss some of Hell’s climate issues and how we might begin to address them. To encourage the widest possible range of views, Mr. Gore invited a mixture of climate experts, satanic functionaries, representatives of industry, people from the faith community, average citizens, advocates for the aged, and a large number of the souls of the damned who are dealing with these changes on a daily basis. Owing to travel restrictions on some of the participants, the convocation took place deep in a smoldering, sulfurous Hell-mouth below a subbasement in the Sony Building. The following is an edited transcript:

Mr. Gore: Thank you all for coming today—is that rotten-egg smell bothering anybody? We’re working on getting some fans to ventilate that out of here—and I’d like to start right in with a question for those of you who have temporarily ascended from the innermost bowels of Hades. You know what it’s like down there, while many of us still don’t. First off, I think we’d all like to know: how hot is it? ...
:reading: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009 ... colloquium

:popcorn:
Kim

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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Fri May 18, 2018 1:20 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:50 am
Some people, when angered, start to jump up and down, scream, throw things around, etc...

Some people, when angered, become reticent, closed, distant, unexpressive, etc...
Yeah, that's the same i understood 👍
Identities are false and not true

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sat May 19, 2018 12:09 am

What makes it hot or cold?
Your own mind. This even occurs in the human realm, if you touch something like dry-ice (frozen carbon dioxide) it is so cold, it feels like it is burning and can cause red blisters on your skin. In other words, at the point of such severity, it may be hard to tell the difference.

You will also find that people who hold a lot of anger or resentment, or who tend to react with intense anger frequently complain of being uncomfortably too hot or too cold. It's a reflection of the intensity of their own self-attachment. We even have terms in English, such as, "He is a real hot-head" or,
"he is such a cold, unfriendly person" and this should give a clue as to what lies ahead for these types of people.

Raging anger will lead to the hell realm illusion
Hatred will lead to the cold hell realm illusion.

All realms are illusions projected by our own minds.
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PeterC
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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by PeterC » Sat May 19, 2018 4:36 am

Tiago Simões wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:32 pm
Hold on now... Is it nude modeling in general or just for money? :tongue:
Maybe there’s a deal to be done here. Perhaps if you make a career in nude modelling but are generally angry about it, you could end up in some sort of sauna set-up where you alternate between a steam room and a cold plunge pool?

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Re: Hot vs. Cold Hells

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sat May 19, 2018 7:01 am

Some of the responses on this thread are very insightful.

I'll add that in the lam rim we read about the ways that karma ripens. In addition to environment, rebirth, habit, etc, there is one that is called 'result similar to the cause'.
If we look at texts that describe the hells and what sins lead to there, we will find a very similar thinking to 'result similar to the cause'

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