Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

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amanitamusc
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:25 am

I'll stick with Dzogchen. :twothumbsup:

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Vasana
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by Vasana » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:42 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:25 am
I'll stick with Dzogchen. :twothumbsup:
As opposed to what?

Conduct still needs to support view and meditation in Dzogchen and Mahamudra. If our conduct doesn't support view and meditation then it's supporting samsara.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

amanitamusc
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:54 am

Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:42 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:25 am
I'll stick with Dzogchen. :twothumbsup:
As opposed to what?

Conduct still needs to support view and meditation in Dzogchen and Mahamudra. If our conduct doesn't support view and meditation then it's supporting samsara.
Dzogchen is a path beyond cause and effect.Shakyamuni Buddha predicted this. :twothumbsup:

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Vasana
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by Vasana » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:46 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:54 am
Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:42 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:25 am
I'll stick with Dzogchen. :twothumbsup:
As opposed to what?

Conduct still needs to support view and meditation in Dzogchen and Mahamudra. If our conduct doesn't support view and meditation then it's supporting samsara.
Dzogchen is a path beyond cause and effect.Shakyamuni Buddha predicted this. :twothumbsup:
You might be disappointed to learn that there's more nuance to it than that. For as long as you are not in the natural state, you are accumulating karma and the wheel of dependent origination spins on. Dzogchen doesn't deny karma, cause and effect nor do any masters ignore emphasizing the importance of recognizing what to accept and reject when you are not in the natural state.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

amanitamusc
Posts: 1622
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:55 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:46 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:54 am
Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:42 am


As opposed to what?

Conduct still needs to support view and meditation in Dzogchen and Mahamudra. If our conduct doesn't support view and meditation then it's supporting samsara.
Dzogchen is a path beyond cause and effect.Shakyamuni Buddha predicted this. :twothumbsup:

You might be disappointed to learn that there's more nuance to it than that. For as long as you are not in the natural state, you are accumulating karma and the wheel of dependent origination spins on. Dzogchen doesn't deny karma, cause and effect nor do any masters ignore emphasizing the importance of recognizing what to accept and reject when you are not in the natural state.
I am a student of ChNNR not Vasana.

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Vasana
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by Vasana » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:55 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:46 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:54 am


Dzogchen is a path beyond cause and effect.Shakyamuni Buddha predicted this. :twothumbsup:

You might be disappointed to learn that there's more nuance to it than that. For as long as you are not in the natural state, you are accumulating karma and the wheel of dependent origination spins on. Dzogchen doesn't deny karma, cause and effect nor do any masters ignore emphasizing the importance of recognizing what to accept and reject when you are not in the natural state.
I am a student of ChNNR not Vasana.
I'm also a student of ChNNR. So we should be respectful to one another. You don't need to take my word on anything and I don't expect you to. But please investigate further.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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mechashivaz
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by mechashivaz » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:25 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:55 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:46 pm


You might be disappointed to learn that there's more nuance to it than that. For as long as you are not in the natural state, you are accumulating karma and the wheel of dependent origination spins on. Dzogchen doesn't deny karma, cause and effect nor do any masters ignore emphasizing the importance of recognizing what to accept and reject when you are not in the natural state.
I am a student of ChNNR not Vasana.
I'm also a student of ChNNR. So we should be respectful to one another. You don't need to take my word on anything and I don't expect you to. But please investigate further.
amanitamusc, if you claim to be a student of CHNN a highly recommended reading is The Precious Vase. If you still have confusion related to relative actions after reading then you should read it again, it's very clear.

amanitamusc
Posts: 1622
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by amanitamusc » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:14 am

mechashivaz wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:25 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:55 pm

I am a student of ChNNR not Vasana.
I'm also a student of ChNNR. So we should be respectful to one another. You don't need to take my word on anything and I don't expect you to. But please investigate further.
amanitamusc, if you claim to be a student of CHNN a highly recommended reading is The Precious Vase. If you still have confusion related to relative actions after reading then you should read it again, it's very clear.
Yes i do have it.I'm not confused.For the past few months i have been listening
to a 10day retreat from Rinpoche.It is on Dorje sempa Namkha Che.
Sorry for the confusion but its not mine.
If you claim to be a student of Rinpoche try to get this and if you are still
confused listen to it again and remember Rinpoche only asks we do Ati guru yoga
this is Dzogchen right from Garab Dorje.
Last edited by amanitamusc on Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Motova
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by Motova » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:04 am

Is there a time limit to purify the five heinous crimes or Bodhisattva vows?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.

Motova
Posts: 1284
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by Motova » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:27 am

Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:04 am
Is there a time limit to purify the five heinous crimes or Bodhisattva vows?
If not, then why do some say there is a limit for purifying samaya?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.

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liuzg150181
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:41 am

Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by liuzg150181 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:01 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:14 am
mechashivaz wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:25 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 pm


I'm also a student of ChNNR. So we should be respectful to one another. You don't need to take my word on anything and I don't expect you to. But please investigate further.
amanitamusc, if you claim to be a student of CHNN a highly recommended reading is The Precious Vase. If you still have confusion related to relative actions after reading then you should read it again, it's very clear.
Yes i do have it.I'm not confused.For the past few months i have been listening
to a 10day retreat from Rinpoche.It is on Dorje sempa Namkha Che.
Sorry for the confusion but its not mine.
If you claim to be a student of Rinpoche try to get this and if you are still
confused listen to it again and remember Rinpoche only asks we do Ati guru yoga
this is Dzogchen right from Garab Dorje.
What CHNN actually says is that the essence of Dzogchen is Ati Guru Yoga,and if you have really no time then thats the one you should just Ati Guru yoga,not that you only need to do this. Apart this,vajra song and medium thun if you have time(say,weekend).

In fact guru yoga is the essence of Vajrayana too. Even deity yoga is essentially guru yoga. And be it ChNN or Vajrayana path there is samaya.

Just gotten 'The Precious Vase',though i had read only a bit but it is essential reading if one really wants to truly understand imo. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.


“Padmasambhava said: ‘Though the view should be as vast as the sky, keep your conduct as fine as barley flour.’ Don’t confuse one with the other. When training in the view, you can be as unbiased, as impartial, as vast, immense, and unlimited as the sky. Your behaviour, on the other hand, should be as careful as possible in discriminating what is beneficial or harmful, what is good or evil. One can combine the view and conduct, but don’t mix them or lose one in the other. That is very important.

‘View like the sky’ means that nothing is held onto in any way whatsoever. You are not stuck anywhere at all. In other words, there is no discrimination as to what to accept and what to reject; no line is drawn separating one thing from another. ‘Conduct as fine as barley flour’ means that there is good and evil, and one needs to differentiate between the two. Give up negative deeds; practice the Dharma. In your behaviour, in your conduct, it is necessary to accept and reject.”

~Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche

amanitamusc
Posts: 1622
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

Post by amanitamusc » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:01 am

liuzg150181 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:01 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:14 am
mechashivaz wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:25 pm


amanitamusc, if you claim to be a student of CHNN a highly recommended reading is The Precious Vase. If you still have confusion related to relative actions after reading then you should read it again, it's very clear.
Yes i do have it.I'm not confused.For the past few months i have been listening
to a 10day retreat from Rinpoche.It is on Dorje sempa Namkha Che.
Sorry for the confusion but its not mine.
If you claim to be a student of Rinpoche try to get this and if you are still
confused listen to it again and remember Rinpoche only asks we do Ati guru yoga
this is Dzogchen right from Garab Dorje.
What CHNN actually says is that the essence of Dzogchen is Ati Guru Yoga,and if you have really no time then thats the one you should just Ati Guru yoga,not that you only need to do this. Apart this,vajra song and medium thun if you have time(say,weekend).



Never heard it quite like this,in fact Rinpoche always says if you only get one thing
from this retreat.That is to practice Ati Guru Yoga the white A.This is the only thing he insists
in every retreat i have ever heard.
Oh by the way i have had the Precious vase and read it many times and practiced from it for
years.You should practice what you like but remember Ati Guru Yoga of the white A is the main
practice.

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