Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

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Motova
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Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Motova » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am

If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:08 am

Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am
If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?

Typically, a scarlet vajra will appear somewhere on one's body.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

LolCat
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by LolCat » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:10 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:08 am
Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am
If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?

Typically, a scarlet vajra will appear somewhere on one's body.
I am not sure if this is serious or not. Is this for real?

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:19 am

LolCat wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:10 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:08 am
Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am
If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?

Typically, a scarlet vajra will appear somewhere on one's body.
I am not sure if this is serious or not. Is this for real?

No.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Motova
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Motova » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:21 am

Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am
If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Or:

If it is probable one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:39 am

Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:21 am
If it is probable one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
At the time of death; yes.

Bro, what did you do?

MatthewAngby
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:28 am

Can u do phowa to escape vajra hell ?

Miroku
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Miroku » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:45 am

I have heard that those who break samayas or did DS practice they usually have signs of "bad death". Which basically means they are very scared etc because they see where they are going now.

Are you ok? Your questions are at least quite curious. As far as I know even the worst breakage of samayas can be purified by doing at least 100 000 vajrasattva mantras.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:18 am

Miroku wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:45 am
I have heard that those who break samayas or did DS practice they usually have signs of "bad death". Which basically means they are very scared etc because they see where they are going now.

Are you ok? Your questions are at least quite curious. As far as I know even the worst breakage of samayas can be purified by doing at least 100 000 vajrasattva mantras.
Tashi delek,

Yes, really with DS practice, sorry cannot believe this.
Broken Samayas can be repaired by seeing the illusionary aspects of ones deeds, confess them as illusion

The main point is not to be involved anymore in the committing again of broken Samayas and the best prevention is to get out of the Tantra vehicle, in case a repeating of broken Samayas would be possible.

Tantra is not an easy vehicle to get enlightened , one step further is the solution, namely Dzogchen.
That is personal and for many others a better option, where there are no such heavy rules as in Tantra.

We need freedom of Mind and to be liberated and not going into chains when we try to get liberated of chains.
The best meditation is no meditation

Crazywisdom
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 am

Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am
If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Your head will be split into seven pieces.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

narraboth
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by narraboth » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:53 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:28 am
Can u do phowa to escape vajra hell ?
I don't think so. Though phowa is said to be able to prevent a person from going to anantarika hell (the result of 5 heinous crimes), phowa is a tantric practice and all tantric practices rely on samaya, so if one totally broke samaya, there's no more fundation for a successful phowa.

Motova
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Motova » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 am
Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am
If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Your head will be split into seven pieces.
Can you expand on this please?
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

pemachophel
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by pemachophel » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm

I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention. Some circumstances will arise making phowa impossible or ineffective. For instance, we have some good intention not to do this or that again. But then, in the heat of the moment, we completely lose our mindfulness, if even for only a second or two, and we do what we had assured ourselves we would not do. The point is, when karma ripens, our best laid plans and intentions don't matter.

So bottom line, cleanse that broken samaya now. There are plenty of methods for this: Vajrasattva, tshog, prostrations, the Sutra of the Three Heaps, other shakpa/confessions such as Narak Kong-shag, etc., etc. The Vajrayana is filled with skillful means. Even if you think you can't purify your downfall, if you simply start doing one of these practices, it will eventually change your mind, i.e., your experience, and your karma. Just start now and try and don't worry about the rest.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm
I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention.
Phowa is dependent upon practice.

If a person can do Phowa and has result with that and can prove that, because he/she can put inside the hole at the top of the skull a piece of Kusha grass, then this person can apply Phowa when he/she dies.

Now we get the question in case of broken Samayas, can this person who is experienced with Phowa NOT apply Phowa at the moment of death ?

We bear in mind that this person with broken Samayas is a Dzogchenpa and does Phowa once a day until he/she dies. Further this Dzogchenpa is very skilled in Thögal and Trekchöd

- What do you think ?
The best meditation is no meditation

Crazywisdom
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:11 pm

Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:20 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 am
Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am
If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Your head will be split into seven pieces.
Can you expand on this please?
Then your body will decompose and you will proceed to hell.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

Motova
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Motova » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:24 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:11 pm
Motova wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:20 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 am


Your head will be split into seven pieces.
Can you expand on this please?
Then your body will decompose and you will proceed to hell.
ok
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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PSM
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by PSM » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:55 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:39 am
Bro, what did you do?
"The only virtue which cannot be faked is courage" - Nassim Nicholas Taleb
"Not practicing dharma is painful" - Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche
"We don't want to feel the weirdness of life." - James Low

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Josef
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Josef » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:21 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm
I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention.
Phowa is dependent upon practice.

If a person can do Phowa and has result with that and can prove that, because he/she can put inside the hole at the top of the skull a piece of Kusha grass, then this person can apply Phowa when he/she dies.

Now we get the question in case of broken Samayas, can this person who is experienced with Phowa NOT apply Phowa at the moment of death ?

We bear in mind that this person with broken Samayas is a Dzogchenpa and does Phowa once a day until he/she dies. Further this Dzogchenpa is very skilled in Thögal and Trekchöd

- What do you think ?
If the person in question is a Dzogchen practitioner who is "very skilled in thogal and trekchod" there is no need to practice phowa or anything else.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:55 pm

Josef wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:21 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm
I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention.
Phowa is dependent upon practice.

If a person can do Phowa and has result with that and can prove that, because he/she can put inside the hole at the top of the skull a piece of Kusha grass, then this person can apply Phowa when he/she dies.

Now we get the question in case of broken Samayas, can this person who is experienced with Phowa NOT apply Phowa at the moment of death ?

We bear in mind that this person with broken Samayas is a Dzogchenpa and does Phowa once a day until he/she dies. Further this Dzogchenpa is very skilled in Thögal and Trekchöd

- What do you think ?
If the person in question is a Dzogchen practitioner who is "very skilled in thogal and trekchod" there is no need to practice phowa or anything else.
The Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche advices us Dzogchenpas who are busy in the ZZNG Dzogchen, to practice Phowa once a day after mastering the hole on the head. And he says not to forget this.
The best meditation is no meditation

Tenma
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Tenma » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:59 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm
I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention.
Phowa is dependent upon practice.

If a person can do Phowa and has result with that and can prove that, because he/she can put inside the hole at the top of the skull a piece of Kusha grass, then this person can apply Phowa when he/she dies.

Now we get the question in case of broken Samayas, can this person who is experienced with Phowa NOT apply Phowa at the moment of death ?

We bear in mind that this person with broken Samayas is a Dzogchenpa and does Phowa once a day until he/she dies. Further this Dzogchenpa is very skilled in Thögal and Trekchöd

- What do you think ?
How on earth do you put grass in your head without dying? A brain surgery? Doubt that works.

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