Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

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Motova
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Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Motova »

If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by dzogchungpa »

Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?

Typically, a scarlet vajra will appear somewhere on one's body.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
LolCat
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by LolCat »

dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:08 am
Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?

Typically, a scarlet vajra will appear somewhere on one's body.
I am not sure if this is serious or not. Is this for real?
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by dzogchungpa »

LolCat wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:10 am
dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:08 am
Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?

Typically, a scarlet vajra will appear somewhere on one's body.
I am not sure if this is serious or not. Is this for real?

No.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Motova
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Motova »

Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Or:

If it is probable one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
Fortyeightvows
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Fortyeightvows »

Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:21 am If it is probable one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
At the time of death; yes.

Bro, what did you do?
MatthewAngby
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by MatthewAngby »

Can u do phowa to escape vajra hell ?
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

I have heard that those who break samayas or did DS practice they usually have signs of "bad death". Which basically means they are very scared etc because they see where they are going now.

Are you ok? Your questions are at least quite curious. As far as I know even the worst breakage of samayas can be purified by doing at least 100 000 vajrasattva mantras.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Miroku wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:45 am I have heard that those who break samayas or did DS practice they usually have signs of "bad death". Which basically means they are very scared etc because they see where they are going now.

Are you ok? Your questions are at least quite curious. As far as I know even the worst breakage of samayas can be purified by doing at least 100 000 vajrasattva mantras.
Tashi delek,

Yes, really with DS practice, sorry cannot believe this.
Broken Samayas can be repaired by seeing the illusionary aspects of ones deeds, confess them as illusion

The main point is not to be involved anymore in the committing again of broken Samayas and the best prevention is to get out of the Tantra vehicle, in case a repeating of broken Samayas would be possible.

Tantra is not an easy vehicle to get enlightened , one step further is the solution, namely Dzogchen.
That is personal and for many others a better option, where there are no such heavy rules as in Tantra.

We need freedom of Mind and to be liberated and not going into chains when we try to get liberated of chains.
The best meditation is no meditation
Natan
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Natan »

Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Your head will be split into seven pieces.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
narraboth
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by narraboth »

MatthewAngby wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:28 am Can u do phowa to escape vajra hell ?
I don't think so. Though phowa is said to be able to prevent a person from going to anantarika hell (the result of 5 heinous crimes), phowa is a tantric practice and all tantric practices rely on samaya, so if one totally broke samaya, there's no more fundation for a successful phowa.
Motova
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Motova »

Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 am
Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Your head will be split into seven pieces.
Can you expand on this please?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
pemachophel
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by pemachophel »

I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention. Some circumstances will arise making phowa impossible or ineffective. For instance, we have some good intention not to do this or that again. But then, in the heat of the moment, we completely lose our mindfulness, if even for only a second or two, and we do what we had assured ourselves we would not do. The point is, when karma ripens, our best laid plans and intentions don't matter.

So bottom line, cleanse that broken samaya now. There are plenty of methods for this: Vajrasattva, tshog, prostrations, the Sutra of the Three Heaps, other shakpa/confessions such as Narak Kong-shag, etc., etc. The Vajrayana is filled with skillful means. Even if you think you can't purify your downfall, if you simply start doing one of these practices, it will eventually change your mind, i.e., your experience, and your karma. Just start now and try and don't worry about the rest.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by kalden yungdrung »

pemachophel wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention.
Phowa is dependent upon practice.

If a person can do Phowa and has result with that and can prove that, because he/she can put inside the hole at the top of the skull a piece of Kusha grass, then this person can apply Phowa when he/she dies.

Now we get the question in case of broken Samayas, can this person who is experienced with Phowa NOT apply Phowa at the moment of death ?

We bear in mind that this person with broken Samayas is a Dzogchenpa and does Phowa once a day until he/she dies. Further this Dzogchenpa is very skilled in Thögal and Trekchöd

- What do you think ?
The best meditation is no meditation
Natan
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Natan »

Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:20 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 am
Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 am If it is certain one is going to Vajra Hell, does one display any mental or physical symptoms?
Your head will be split into seven pieces.
Can you expand on this please?
Then your body will decompose and you will proceed to hell.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Motova
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Motova »

Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:11 pm
Motova wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:20 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 am

Your head will be split into seven pieces.
Can you expand on this please?
Then your body will decompose and you will proceed to hell.
ok
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
PSM
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by PSM »

Fortyeightvows wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:39 am Bro, what did you do?
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Josef
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Josef »

kalden yungdrung wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm
pemachophel wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention.
Phowa is dependent upon practice.

If a person can do Phowa and has result with that and can prove that, because he/she can put inside the hole at the top of the skull a piece of Kusha grass, then this person can apply Phowa when he/she dies.

Now we get the question in case of broken Samayas, can this person who is experienced with Phowa NOT apply Phowa at the moment of death ?

We bear in mind that this person with broken Samayas is a Dzogchenpa and does Phowa once a day until he/she dies. Further this Dzogchenpa is very skilled in Thögal and Trekchöd

- What do you think ?
If the person in question is a Dzogchen practitioner who is "very skilled in thogal and trekchod" there is no need to practice phowa or anything else.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Josef wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:21 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm
pemachophel wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention.
Phowa is dependent upon practice.

If a person can do Phowa and has result with that and can prove that, because he/she can put inside the hole at the top of the skull a piece of Kusha grass, then this person can apply Phowa when he/she dies.

Now we get the question in case of broken Samayas, can this person who is experienced with Phowa NOT apply Phowa at the moment of death ?

We bear in mind that this person with broken Samayas is a Dzogchenpa and does Phowa once a day until he/she dies. Further this Dzogchenpa is very skilled in Thögal and Trekchöd

- What do you think ?
If the person in question is a Dzogchen practitioner who is "very skilled in thogal and trekchod" there is no need to practice phowa or anything else.
The Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche advices us Dzogchenpas who are busy in the ZZNG Dzogchen, to practice Phowa once a day after mastering the hole on the head. And he says not to forget this.
The best meditation is no meditation
Tenma
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Re: Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

Post by Tenma »

kalden yungdrung wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm
pemachophel wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:01 pm I think Narraboth has a good point. If you've seriously broken samaya which you have not purified and restored, then, at the time of death you won't be able to do phowa even if that had been your intention.
Phowa is dependent upon practice.

If a person can do Phowa and has result with that and can prove that, because he/she can put inside the hole at the top of the skull a piece of Kusha grass, then this person can apply Phowa when he/she dies.

Now we get the question in case of broken Samayas, can this person who is experienced with Phowa NOT apply Phowa at the moment of death ?

We bear in mind that this person with broken Samayas is a Dzogchenpa and does Phowa once a day until he/she dies. Further this Dzogchenpa is very skilled in Thögal and Trekchöd

- What do you think ?
How on earth do you put grass in your head without dying? A brain surgery? Doubt that works.
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