Western Monastic - reasons why she left

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:33 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:27 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:25 pm
I'm fairly sure that if they had that kind of thing back in the day there would have been at least one day trader in that list of mahasiddhas.
I’m pretty sure one of them was a gambler

I know he was a tirthika, but if I recall correctly Robert Svoboda's guru was pretty deep into horse racing.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Miroku
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Miroku » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:34 pm

I knew a guy who used to work during summer really hard and then spend rest of the year living in a room and doing four sessions a day. So it is possible. Really depends, whether one has the balls to do it. Or one can develop mindfulness in every moment and do guru yoga, plus one or two sessions per day of some practice.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

Crazywisdom
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Crazywisdom » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:35 pm

Miroku wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:34 pm
I knew a guy who used to work during summer really hard and then spend rest of the year living in a room and doing four sessions a day. So it is possible. Really depends, whether one has the balls to do it. Or one can develop mindfulness in every moment and do guru yoga, plus one or two sessions per day of some practice.
Good examples. We should have a thread about strategies for keeping practice in while struggling along in the West.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Aryjna
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Aryjna » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:36 pm

Miroku wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:34 pm
I knew a guy who used to work during summer really hard and then spend rest of the year living in a room and doing four sessions a day. So it is possible. Really depends, whether one has the balls to do it. Or one can develop mindfulness in every moment and do guru yoga, plus one or two sessions per day of some practice.
I think if you are already significantly advanced it is easy. You just need a place to stay where you don't have to pay rent. The only other expenses are the food, which can be very inexpensive. But if you are not that advanced you need to travel to meet your teachers, receive empowerments, instructions, etc., which requires a lot of money.

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Miroku » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:39 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:35 pm
Miroku wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:34 pm
I knew a guy who used to work during summer really hard and then spend rest of the year living in a room and doing four sessions a day. So it is possible. Really depends, whether one has the balls to do it. Or one can develop mindfulness in every moment and do guru yoga, plus one or two sessions per day of some practice.
Good examples. We should have a thread about strategies for keeping practice in while struggling along in the West.
Done. :D

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=28911
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

Miroku
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Miroku » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:41 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:36 pm
Miroku wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:34 pm
I knew a guy who used to work during summer really hard and then spend rest of the year living in a room and doing four sessions a day. So it is possible. Really depends, whether one has the balls to do it. Or one can develop mindfulness in every moment and do guru yoga, plus one or two sessions per day of some practice.
I think if you are already significantly advanced it is easy. You just need a place to stay where you don't have to pay rent. The only other expenses are the food, which can be very inexpensive. But if you are not that advanced you need to travel to meet your teachers, receive empowerments, instructions, etc., which requires a lot of money.
Yes of course. That is very normal. But it seems that many people in the West are stuck at that phase for decades without really doing retreat. Plus developing mindfulness that is supported by daily meditation is not that hard really. And one can live normal life.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Aryjna » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:45 pm

Miroku wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:41 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:36 pm
Miroku wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:34 pm
I knew a guy who used to work during summer really hard and then spend rest of the year living in a room and doing four sessions a day. So it is possible. Really depends, whether one has the balls to do it. Or one can develop mindfulness in every moment and do guru yoga, plus one or two sessions per day of some practice.
I think if you are already significantly advanced it is easy. You just need a place to stay where you don't have to pay rent. The only other expenses are the food, which can be very inexpensive. But if you are not that advanced you need to travel to meet your teachers, receive empowerments, instructions, etc., which requires a lot of money.
Yes of course. That is very normal. But it seems that many people in the West are stuck at that phase for decades without really doing retreat. Plus developing mindfulness that is supported by daily meditation is not that hard really. And one can live normal life.
Yes, I think you can make enough progress while working etc. Enough to recognize in the bardo.

But I doubt that you can attain buddhahood while still alive in this way. And possibly not even a level where you can teach others. Though that may depend on the person.

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Miroku » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:45 pm
But I doubt that you can attain buddhahood while still alive in this way. And possibly not even a level where you can teach others. Though that may depend on the person.
Yes, that really is hard to say. I do believe it really depends on the individual. I know a guy who has been practicing only for like two years and has made 5 times the progress I have made in 6 years. Mostly because he really dived into it and does retreats whenever he can. If you want to get realization in a life time you have to devote yourself to that fully. It can be possible when you have the capacity to do it while working, etc. But yeah. The rest of us might have to give up many things and live more humbly in order to achieve buddhahood.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Aryjna » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:54 pm

Miroku wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:45 pm
But I doubt that you can attain buddhahood while still alive in this way. And possibly not even a level where you can teach others. Though that may depend on the person.
Yes, that really is hard to say. I do believe it really depends on the individual. I know a guy who has been practicing only for like two years and has made 5 times the progress I have made in 6 years. Mostly because he really dived into it and does retreats whenever he can.
What do you mean retreats? Just personal retreats at home, or attending retreats with lamas etc?

Miroku
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Miroku » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:00 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:54 pm
Miroku wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:45 pm
But I doubt that you can attain buddhahood while still alive in this way. And possibly not even a level where you can teach others. Though that may depend on the person.
Yes, that really is hard to say. I do believe it really depends on the individual. I know a guy who has been practicing only for like two years and has made 5 times the progress I have made in 6 years. Mostly because he really dived into it and does retreats whenever he can.
What do you mean retreats? Just personal retreats at home, or attending retreats with lamas etc?
Personal. I think those matter the most. There really is a reason why so many masters give teachings and send on retreat then again give teachings and send on retreat. :D Or at least it was like that.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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Grigoris
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:27 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:12 pm
learned this market gambling so I can work even less;
Before recommending to others to gamble, have you ever considered that this strategy is only currently working for you because you accrued the karma in the past to attract wealth? ie it is not the gambling that is the cause for wealth, but...

If one wants the causes and conditions in the future to be able to practice with ease then one should act NOW to generate them.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Crazywisdom » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:28 pm

Well. That’s why we do mandala offerings, ganapuja and stuff. And honestly I don’t have that much Merit I really have to work on it.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:30 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:28 pm
Well. That’s why we do mandala offerings, ganapuja and stuff. And honestly I don’t have that much Merit I really have to work on it.
So recommend to people to do these, rather than recommending they gamble on the stock market.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Crazywisdom » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:36 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:30 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:28 pm
Well. That’s why we do mandala offerings, ganapuja and stuff. And honestly I don’t have that much Merit I really have to work on it.
So recommend to people to do these, rather than recommending they gamble on the stock market.
I’m just giving an example. The example of people working summers and practicing winters is just as good. Pls don’t order me around. I’m not a Communist from europe.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Crazywisdom » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:39 pm

And to be clear no amount of pujas will train you for a job. You have to gain the wisdom of knowledge and experience in worldly affairs. Pujas help will patience and stuff.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:45 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:27 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:25 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:14 pm
I might. It’s something I’ve been working very diligently to master. Something interesting I learned from pro traders is they usually are really cool under pressure; usually are very honest and self aware; patient and generous. Many of them seem like natural Buddhas to me.

I'm fairly sure that if they had that kind of thing back in the day there would have been at least one day trader in that list of mahasiddhas.
I’m pretty sure one of them was a gambler

Image
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:46 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:36 pm
I’m just giving an example. The example of people working summers and practicing winters is just as good. Pls don’t order me around. I’m not a Communist from europe.
Before running off at the mouth you may wish to consider that there are readers that do not have nuanced understandings about the workings of karma, that there are kids reading, people without an understanding of Buddhism, etc...
(3) "What are the six channels for dissipating wealth which he does not pursue?


(a) "indulgence in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness;
(b) sauntering in streets at unseemly hours;
(c) frequenting theatrical shows;
(d) indulgence in gambling which causes heedlessness;
(e) association with evil companions;
(f) the habit of idleness.

...

(d) "There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in gambling:


(i) the winner begets hate,
(ii) the loser grieves for lost wealth,
(iii) loss of wealth,
(iv) his word is not relied upon in a court of law,
(v) he is despised by his friends and associates,
(vi) he is not sought after for matrimony; for people would say he is a gambler and is not fit to look after a wife.
Sigalovada Sutta: The Discourse to Sigala - The Layperson's Code of Discipline

Now go find me a Buddhist text that extols the virtues of gambling, from any tradition you wish.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:54 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:45 pm
Image
Tantepa retired into a cremation ground (after losing everything) where he met a yogi that gave him a practice based on his strongest obsession-affliction:

"Just as you lost all your money at dice
Lose all thoughts of the three realms
Throwing the dice of thought-free awareness;
Just as you have been knocked down by your creditors
Knock down thought into the sphere of empty space;
And just as you rest in the solace of this cremation ground
Relax in the continuim of pure pleasure."

He didn't advise him to continue gambling, he advised him on how to utilise the energy of the affliction, in order to liberate rather than enslave himself.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:55 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:39 pm
And to be clear no amount of pujas will train you for a job. You have to gain the wisdom of knowledge and experience in worldly affairs. Pujas help will patience and stuff.
Pujaris make a pretty decent living in some places... ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Western Monastic - reasons why she left

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:01 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:54 pm
He didn't advise him to continue gambling, he advised him on how to utilise the energy of the affliction, in order to liberate rather than enslave himself.

Well, he didn't tell him to stop gambling either. The point is, chill.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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