Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

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Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:49 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:47 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:44 pm


Even fully ordained Khenpos and geshes?
If they practice HYT, they are more likely to be doing it, and probably doing it Mipham style.
They all practice HYT. So, in the end can we conclude that in your opinion it is just fine that all these sexual predators should be permitted to continue unchecked?
Not making a judgement on that, just saying "don't flatter yourselves" by not expecting it in one's teachers.

Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm

Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:49 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:43 pm

In my opinion, they all do it. But in general, doesn't not being on guard for it even in what one expects as the unlikeliest places help perpetuate it?
So it is partly the fault of the victims as well?

Oh by the way, you claimed it was a dharma teaching. But now it seems you think it is misconduct but acceptable behavior because all lamas do it (in your opinion)?

Kevin...
The "dharma teaching" is in your reactions. Doesn't mean to not deal with it appropriately.

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Virgo
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Virgo » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Not making a judgement on that, just saying "don't flatter yourselves" by not expecting it in one's teachers.
But is it a dharma teaching or is it not?

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PSM
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by PSM » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm

I don't know if you can deal with being this woke, but I hear they're all lizards. In fact I bet you're all lizards.
"The only virtue which cannot be faked is courage" - Nassim Nicholas Taleb
"Not practicing dharma is painful" - Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche
"We don't want to feel the weirdness of life." - James Low

Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm

Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Not making a judgement on that, just saying "don't flatter yourselves" by not expecting it in one's teachers.
But is it a dharma teaching or is it not?
It is, in HYT.

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Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:53 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Not making a judgement on that, just saying "don't flatter yourselves" by not expecting it in one's teachers.
But is it a dharma teaching or is it not?
It is, in HYT.
In what tantra does it instruct students to willingly submit to sexual abuse?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:56 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:53 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm


But is it a dharma teaching or is it not?
It is, in HYT.
In what tantra does it instruct students to willingly submit to sexual abuse?
I don't think the tantras recognized "sexual abuse." but sexual acts with women are in there.

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Quay
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Quay » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:57 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:43 pm
...In my opinion, they all do it. But in general, doesn't not being on guard for it even in what one expects as the unlikeliest places help perpetuate it?
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing."
-- Mark Twain, July 1908.
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:06 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:56 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:53 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm


It is, in HYT.
In what tantra does it instruct students to willingly submit to sexual abuse?


I don't think the tantras recognized "sexual abuse." but sexual acts with women are in there.
The tantras very clearly recognize the existence of sexual misconduct, and samaya breakage through relying on unripened partners.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Snowbear
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:41 am

Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:07 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:06 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:56 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:53 pm


In what tantra does it instruct students to willingly submit to sexual abuse?


I don't think the tantras recognized "sexual abuse." but sexual acts with women are in there.
The tantras very clearly recognize the existence of sexual misconduct, and samaya breakage through relying on unripemed partners.
What do they say "sexual misconduct" is?

pael
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by pael » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:08 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:06 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:56 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:53 pm


In what tantra does it instruct students to willingly submit to sexual abuse?


I don't think the tantras recognized "sexual abuse." but sexual acts with women are in there.
The tantras very clearly recognize the existence of sexual misconduct, and samaya breakage through relying on unripened partners.
What is age of consent according to Buddhism?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

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Virgo
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Virgo » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Not making a judgement on that, just saying "don't flatter yourselves" by not expecting it in one's teachers.
But is it a dharma teaching or is it not?
It is, in HYT.
Oh, so when the Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche allegedly pushed that women's head towards his penis and told her to "finish it off" eve though she expressed that she did not want to engage in sexual activity with him (nevermind all the other women's allegations) he was engaging in teaching her dharma?

Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm

Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm


But is it a dharma teaching or is it not?
It is, in HYT.
Oh, so when the Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche pushed that women's head towards his penis and told her to "finish it off" eve though she expressed that she did not want to engage in sexual activity with him (nevermind all the other women's allegations) he was engaging in teaching her dharma?
In his eyes, I suspect he may have thought he was.

Edit: no not teaching her dharma...that he was "practicing" dharma for himself.
Last edited by Snowbear on Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Josef
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Josef » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:13 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm


It is, in HYT.
Oh, so when the Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche pushed that women's head towards his penis and told her to "finish it off" eve though she expressed that she did not want to engage in sexual activity with him (nevermind all the other women's allegations) he was engaging in teaching her dharma?
In his eyes, I suspect he may have thought he was.
So in your eyes Sakyong Mipham is also an idiot?
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Virgo » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:14 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm

Edit: no not teaching her dharma...that he was "practicing" dharma for himself.
Sexually abusing the vulnerable is "practicing dharma" for yourself? I did not know that.

Kevin...

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Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:15 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:07 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:06 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:56 pm



I don't think the tantras recognized "sexual abuse." but sexual acts with women are in there.
The tantras very clearly recognize the existence of sexual misconduct, and samaya breakage through relying on unripemed partners.
What do they say "sexual misconduct" is?
For a vajrayana practioners, sleeping with ordinary partners who have not been ripened by empowerment is sexual musconduct, beyond that, the standard definitions apply. For example, the rape allegation against Mipham would be covered under this.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:16 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm


It is, in HYT.
Oh, so when the Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche pushed that women's head towards his penis and told her to "finish it off" eve though she expressed that she did not want to engage in sexual activity with him (nevermind all the other women's allegations) he was engaging in teaching her dharma?
In his eyes, I suspect he may have thought he was.

Edit: no not teaching her dharma...that he was "practicing" dharma for himself.
You mean he was masturbating with the mouth of an unwilling, frightened young woman?
Last edited by Malcolm on Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Snowbear
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:41 am

Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:16 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:15 pm
For a vajrayana practioners, sleeping with ordinary partners who have not been ripened by empowerment is sexual musconduct
Is there a reference I can look up?

In Mipham's case, had these women received empowerments from him?

Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:18 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:16 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm

Oh, so when the Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche pushed that women's head towards his penis and told her to "finish it off" eve though she expressed that she did not want to engage in sexual activity with him (nevermind all the other women's allegations) he was engaging in teaching her dharma?
In his eyes, I suspect he may have thought he was.

Edit: no not teaching her dharma...that he was "practicing" dharma for himself.
You mean he was masturbating with the mouth of an unwilling, frightened young woman?
His believing he was practicing dharma and it really being dharma are two different things.

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Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:18 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:16 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:15 pm
For a vajrayana practioners, sleeping with ordinary partners who have not been ripened by empowerment is sexual musconduct
Is there a reference I can look up?

In Mipham's case, had these women received empowerments from him?
I thought you were quite expert in HYT. In any case Buddhist Ethics by Kongtrul addresses this.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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