Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

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Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:59 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:52 pmThere are all kinds of indolence -- moral indolence is the the worst, far worse that physical indolence.

See: https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/searc ... q=indolent

Moral indolence and apathy, both Babbitt and Weaver stress, are forces of gravity that need to be quelled if one is to fly beyond the nets of naturalism and temperamental excesses.
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.o ... eaver.html
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by dzogchungpa »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:41 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:59 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:52 pmThere are all kinds of indolence -- moral indolence is the the worst, far worse that physical indolence.

See: https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/searc ... q=indolent

Moral indolence and apathy, both Babbitt and Weaver stress, are forces of gravity that need to be quelled if one is to fly beyond the nets of naturalism and temperamental excesses.
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.o ... eaver.html


LOL. Dude, if you meant "morally indolent" you should have said:

Correct, women are human beings with dignity who should not treated like cum dumps for spoiled, entitled, morally indolent men.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:41 pm Honestly this whole "monks do it better" thing is kind of an absurd digression. The best guru is one who can really benefit you. To take some obvious examples, are ChNN or HSTT somehow inferior gurus because they are not monks?


:focus:
They are both qualify as glorious gurus, palden lamas.

And it is not an absurd digression at all. If people stopped lionizing ngakpas simple because they are lay persons, a lot of this nonsense would be forestalled. You might have noticed that these scandals are most prominent in organizations run by lay gurus. Wonder why? If you do, you are an idiot.
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:44 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:41 pm
Moral indolence and apathy, both Babbitt and Weaver stress, are forces of gravity that need to be quelled if one is to fly beyond the nets of naturalism and temperamental excesses.
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.o ... eaver.html


LOL. Dude, if you meant "morally indolent" you should have said:

Correct, women are human beings with dignity who should not treated like cum dumps for spoiled, entitled, morally indolent men.

Keep grasping at reeds.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by dzogchungpa »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:47 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:44 pmLOL. Dude, if you meant "morally indolent" you should have said:

Correct, women are human beings with dignity who should not treated like cum dumps for spoiled, entitled, morally indolent men.

Keep grasping at reeds.


You got it, Hoss. :smile:


Gotta run. :cheers:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:47 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:41 pm Honestly this whole "monks do it better" thing is kind of an absurd digression. The best guru is one who can really benefit you. To take some obvious examples, are ChNN or HSTT somehow inferior gurus because they are not monks?


:focus:
They are both qualify as glorious gurus, palden lamas.

And it is not an absurd digression at all. If people stopped lionizing ngakpas simple because they are lay persons, a lot of this nonsense would be forestalled. You might have noticed that these scandals are most prominent in organizations run by lay gurus. Wonder why? If you do, you are an idiot.
I'm sure scandals happen with monastics too, man.

Keep in mind these lay gurus in the West are often put into that role by heads of lineages. If you want to point fingers, blame them.
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:57 pm I'm sure scandals happen with monastics too, man.
Yes, they do, but not with such frequency.

Keep in mind these lay gurus in the West are often put into that role by heads of lineages. If you want to point fingers, blame them.
Really? Who put Sogyal in charge (answer, no one)? Mukpo inherited his position, he does not really belong to any of the four schools. Even of the lineage heads are awakened, as some must be, that does not mean they are omniscient.

In general, in the West, it is open center first, get permission later.
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Norwegian »

Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:57 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:47 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:41 pm Honestly this whole "monks do it better" thing is kind of an absurd digression. The best guru is one who can really benefit you. To take some obvious examples, are ChNN or HSTT somehow inferior gurus because they are not monks?


:focus:
They are both qualify as glorious gurus, palden lamas.

And it is not an absurd digression at all. If people stopped lionizing ngakpas simple because they are lay persons, a lot of this nonsense would be forestalled. You might have noticed that these scandals are most prominent in organizations run by lay gurus. Wonder why? If you do, you are an idiot.
I'm sure scandals happen with monastics too, man.

Keep in mind these lay gurus in the West are often put into that role by heads of lineages. If you want to point fingers, blame them.
No. That is incorrect. Earlier you tried to make it seem as if the victim of sexual abuse had responsibility in her being abused. And now you're trying to make it seem as if the lineage heads are to blame, but not those who engage in sexual abuse themselves.

This is really quite baffling.

If someone rapes a person, it is the rapist who is responsible. It is their fault, not the person who just got raped.

If someone is hired to work at a company, and the person who got hired rapes a coworker, it is neither the coworker nor the company who is responsible for that rape, it is the rapist.

This is very easy to understand. At least it should be.
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The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

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Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

Norwegian wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:05 pm

This is very easy to understand. At least it should be.
You would think so, but apologists for the male abuse of women will create very tangled rationales in their heads for why it is anyone's fault but the abuser's.
Last edited by Malcolm on Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:04 pm
Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:57 pm I'm sure scandals happen with monastics too, man.
Yes, they do, but not with such frequency.

You did the math?
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:08 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:04 pm
Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:57 pm I'm sure scandals happen with monastics too, man.
Yes, they do, but not with such frequency.

You did the math?
I've been in the Buddhist scene for 35 years. I've done the math. I know about scandals you have never heard of and never will. Not from my lips.
Snowbear
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:10 pm
Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:08 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:04 pm

Yes, they do, but not with such frequency.

You did the math?
I've been in the Buddhist scene for 35 years. I've done the math. I know about scandals you have never heard of and never will. Not from my lips.
Fine, but that's not math.
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yan kong
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by yan kong »

Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:11 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:10 pm
Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:08 pm


You did the math?
I've been in the Buddhist scene for 35 years. I've done the math. I know about scandals you have never heard of and never will. Not from my lips.
Fine, but that's not math.
Your demand of some sort of proof is ironic as you made little effort to back up your own remarks.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

yan kong wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:17 pm
Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:11 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:10 pm

I've been in the Buddhist scene for 35 years. I've done the math. I know about scandals you have never heard of and never will. Not from my lips.
Fine, but that's not math.
Your demand of some sort of proof is ironic as you made little effort to back up your own remarks.
And he can't. Classic "whataboutism."
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:11 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:10 pm
Snowbear wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:08 pm


You did the math?
I've been in the Buddhist scene for 35 years. I've done the math. I know about scandals you have never heard of and never will. Not from my lips.
Fine, but that's not math.
The issue, here, incidentally, is Osel Mukpo's failure as a teacher who has the best interest of all his students at heart.
Sennin
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Sennin »

dzogchungpa wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:35 pm Snowbear, you’ve got to understand that for a lot of guys on this board Malcolm is like some kind of god and whatever he says is gospel, even when it contradicts other things he’s said.
People examine the flaws of gems carefully,
But who would so scrutinize a fire brand?
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

Of interest:

Yet when we look closely at the men described as serious and serial offenders—the ones indicted or convicted of sexual crimes (Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Larry Nassar), or the ones accused of being repeat predators, gropers and exhibitionists (among them Louis C.K., Steve Wynn, Mark Halperin, Kevin Spacey, James Levine)—there’s also something strangely stylized about their behavior. It’s as if they were following a script available only to them, their victims forced to improvise in an awful, repetitive drama. The hotel rooms. Their surprise appearance in a bathrobe. (So many men have reportedly relied on the unbelted robe, from Weinstein to Charlie Rose to architect Richard Meier, that it could now be called the pervert’s uniform.) And the masturbation! So much masturbation! Behind desks, on women’s legs, inside their own pants. Their alleged predations are shocking in their brazenness, breadth and damage: At least 85 women have accused Weinstein; more than 50 have accused Cosby; more than 200 have accused writer-director James Toback. At Nassar’s sentencing, prosecutors identified more than 265 victims.
...

The therapists also describe a pattern of sexual behavior called “avoidant attachment.” People with avoidant attachment patterns, they write, often have difficulty forming adult relationships. Even if these individuals are in a primary romantic relationship, they are more likely to seek sex elsewhere. Meanwhile, people with unconventional turn-ons may feel shame or embarrassment, so they avoid exploring their desires with a partner, preferring the reliability of masturbation. They can engage in out-of-control sexual behavior to regulate the threat of emotional closeness. Or, as Morin wrote, “Lust is most likely to turn destructive when it is split off from the rest of life, where it festers and grows hostile.”
https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/art ... predators/
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Josef
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Josef »

dzogchungpa wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:35 pm Snowbear, you’ve got to understand that for a lot of guys on this board Malcolm is like some kind of god and whatever he says is gospel, even when it contradicts other things he’s said.
Or those of us who actually know Malcolm and consider him a friend respect the decades of his life that he has dedicated to the dharma and his generosity to people on this board.
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Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Malcolm »

Josef wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:35 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:35 pm Snowbear, you’ve got to understand that for a lot of guys on this board Malcolm is like some kind of god and whatever he says is gospel, even when it contradicts other things he’s said.
Or those of us who actually know Malcolm and consider him a friend respect the decades of his life that he has dedicated to the dharma and his generosity to people on this board.
Haters gonna hate, that is just a fact of life.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

You would think so, but apologists for the male abuse of women will create very tangled rationales in their heads for why it is anyone's fault but the abuser's.
This can also be taken to an extreme. For instance, in the Lama Norlha scandal it was put to us that in all cases the relationship is inappropriate, and that in all cases it is the clergyman’s fault for letting it happen. This includes if the woman initiated it and willingly participated for years. She still bears zero responsibility even then. And that means both he and his organization are legally liable in a lawsuit. That, in turn, effectively means that if the affair ends amicably there’s no problem. But if the woman feels unhappy—for whatever reason—she has unilateral ability to take revenge (and profit financially) regardless of the actual circumstances.

The best thing I can say about that idea is that it makes court proceedings exceedingly simple. And that is a legitimate consideration for how a society has to process these situations. You don’t want some judge trying to assign responsibility in a seduction on a case by case basis.

However it also means that adult women are given the same status as a child in that they are deemed to not have the power of consent at all. The idea that adults can have zero responsibility for their actions is, well, something. I can’t think of the correct word for it right now.
Last edited by Schrödinger’s Yidam on Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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