Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
- Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal Rinpoche on crazy wisdom, saying it should inspire and not harm, and if it does harm, it is not true crazy wisdom.
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
- Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I'm beginning to think that the only crazy wisdom we really need these days is a radical respect towards women that breaks from the patriarchal norm; that actually acknowledges them as not only being embodiments of the feminine divine, but as human beings, too, and therefore their equal rights to education, the Dharma, etc. A crazy wisdom that doesn't disparage or abuse any beings due to their gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status, mental health issues, or sexuality.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme
དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
You so crazy.Palzang Jangchub wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:30 pm I'm beginning to think that the only crazy wisdom we really need these days is a radical respect towards women that breaks from the patriarchal norm; that actually acknowledges them as not only being embodiments of the feminine divine, but as human beings, too, and therefore their equal rights to education, the Dharma, etc. A crazy wisdom that doesn't disparage or abuse any beings due to their gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status, mental health issues, or sexuality.
Kevin...
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I'm beginning to think that the only Buddha Field we really need these days is when all war, social injustice, disease, poverty, and ecological problems are solved. Plus animal rights, veganism, renewable energy, and a guarantee of personal fulfillment for every individual at birth. Plus this arrangement is locked in so it does not change, it never becomes boring, and no new problems are created by this arrangement. Everything must be just right on my terms, according to my criteria. Then and only then will I put aside my objections, criticisms, and demands. That’s what we need before we can see the world as a Buddha Field.
*****
Sorry for the sarcasm, but the point took less typing that way.
*****
Sorry for the sarcasm, but the point took less typing that way.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Palzang Jangchub wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:30 pm I'm beginning to think that the only crazy wisdom we really need these days is a radical respect towards women that breaks from the patriarchal norm; that actually acknowledges them as not only being embodiments of the feminine divine, but as human beings, too, and therefore their equal rights to education, the Dharma, etc. A crazy wisdom that doesn't disparage or abuse any beings due to their gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status, mental health issues, or sexuality.
These days I feel this is more crazy and outrageous than any other kind of behavior you could demonstrate.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I hear what you’re saying, but it seems what matters is empowerment come from someone with instructions from the lineage.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:31 pmApparently, we need lemon laws. Anyway, empowerments granted by gurus with no realization have no force anyway.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:15 pmCaveat emptor.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:10 pm
Lets start by not pretending that everything advanced in the name of Vajrayāna actually corresponds with Vajrayāna Dharma on any level. Lets also stop pretending, in the name of "samaya," that bestowing empowerments is a free pass to abuse students, sexually, financially, and emotionally.
“Homage to Vajrakumāra”
“Please bestow...
“Firstly,... in general, power falls into four categories: the power that is attained even without empowerment is the best, comprising that power that is gained by the mind as a result of correctly realizing the view. Power is not attained, even without the ritual empowerment, when the guru as no lineal instructions and the disciple has no vows. Power attained through empowerment is gained by a disciple who has accepted vows from a guru who possesses lineal instructions. And one who has not received the empowerments, although the empowerments have been bestowed upon him, and has gained nothing, even though it has all been given, is like someone whose mind is completely black.”
-Bolt of Lightning from the Blue, p. 303
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Yes, as well as having done the retreats, etc. Nevertheless, giving samaya to students requires having an iron belly for dealing with broken samaya, and a guru who has no realization will just be ruined if they are not careful.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:13 pmI hear what you’re saying, but it seems what matters is empowerment come from someone with instructions from the lineage.
“Homage to Vajrakumāra”
“Please bestow...
“Firstly,... in general, power falls into four categories: the power that is attained even without empowerment is the best, comprising that power that is gained by the mind as a result of correctly realizing the view. Power is not attained, even without the ritual empowerment, when the guru as no lineal instructions and the disciple has no vows. Power attained through empowerment is gained by a disciple who has accepted vows from a guru who possesses lineal instructions. And one who has not received the empowerments, although the empowerments have been bestowed upon him, and has gained nothing, even though it has all been given, is like someone whose mind is completely black.”
-Bolt of Lightning from the Blue, p. 303
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
A Look At The #MeToo Movement In The Shambhala Buddhist Community
Buddhist nonprofit spent half a million dollars on leader they knew was accused of sexual assault
Buddhist nonprofit spent half a million dollars on leader they knew was accused of sexual assault
- How foolish you are,
grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
- Vasubandhu
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Buddhist teacher quit Shambhala in ‘protest’ before his own sexual misconduct allegation went public
- How foolish you are,
grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
- Vasubandhu
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Not at all surprising.Mr. G wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:01 pm Buddhist teacher quit Shambhala in ‘protest’ before his own sexual misconduct allegation went public
Having met Rinzler I have always been shocked that he is considered a teacher and has been able to get published.
The vetting process for "teachers" in Shambhala is absurdly vacuous.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
- conebeckham
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I don't disagree, but.....what vetting process? For any teacher? Including Tibetan Lamas?Josef wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:15 pmNot at all surprising.Mr. G wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:01 pm Buddhist teacher quit Shambhala in ‘protest’ before his own sexual misconduct allegation went public
Having met Rinzler I have always been shocked that he is considered a teacher and has been able to get published.
The vetting process for "teachers" in Shambhala is absurdly vacuous.
I mean, yes, some centers, esp. those established by major lineage figures, have appointed teachers and there is vetting going on, but these days there are many centers that have been set up by people, of any race/ethnicity/background, with no "vetting process."
Shambhala, being a more established institution, should have had checks and balances in place of course, but at the end of the day.....students need to have Eyes Wide Open.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I would regularly attend the Monday night talkes at the NYC Shambhala Center when I lived there. I remember seeing him talk once and I started avoiding any evenings where he was scheduled, something just felt off with him. It's unfortunate that this feeling turned out to be accurate.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:15 pmNot at all surprising.Mr. G wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:01 pm Buddhist teacher quit Shambhala in ‘protest’ before his own sexual misconduct allegation went public
Having met Rinzler I have always been shocked that he is considered a teacher and has been able to get published.
The vetting process for "teachers" in Shambhala is absurdly vacuous.
Always listen to your gut!
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
It is awful that some consider these people teachers. Some people may feel like "belonging" to some kind of group when it comes to big "organizations" such as these. But I can't understand it. If one is really serious about their practice, then isn't it best to seek out authentic Master's from authentic lineages?
I couldn't imagine doing anything else.
I couldn't imagine doing anything else.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
People think Trungpa was an authentic master, given the sheer amount of accolade he is accorded by highly respected Tibetan masters such as Dzongsar Khyentse and so on. Since they think Trungpa is authentic, it is not hard to understand why they think Shambhala is authentic. Since they think Shambhala is authentic, they think the teachers in Shambhala are authentic.
Trungpa is kind of the third rail in Tibetan Buddhism. Many people do not actually approve of him, but since he built a very successful organization, no one in the Tibetan hierarchy will directly criticize him. For this reason, people will continue to be attracted to Shambhala. They have turned Trungpa into a very successful brand.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I was primarily referring to the “acharyas” within the organization.conebeckham wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:58 pmI don't disagree, but.....what vetting process? For any teacher? Including Tibetan Lamas?Josef wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:15 pmNot at all surprising.Mr. G wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:01 pm Buddhist teacher quit Shambhala in ‘protest’ before his own sexual misconduct allegation went public
Having met Rinzler I have always been shocked that he is considered a teacher and has been able to get published.
The vetting process for "teachers" in Shambhala is absurdly vacuous.
I mean, yes, some centers, esp. those established by major lineage figures, have appointed teachers and there is vetting going on, but these days there are many centers that have been set up by people, of any race/ethnicity/background, with no "vetting process."
Shambhala, being a more established institution, should have had checks and balances in place of course, but at the end of the day.....students need to have Eyes Wide Open.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Okay, this does make sense. Maybe a little off topic here but...Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:24 pmPeople think Trungpa was an authentic master, given the sheer amount of accolade he is accorded by highly respected Tibetan masters such as Dzongsar Khyentse and so on. Since they think Trungpa is authentic, it is not hard to understand why they think Shambhala is authentic. Since they think Shambhala is authentic, they think the teachers in Shambhala are authentic.
Trungpa is kind of the third rail in Tibetan Buddhism. Many people do not actually approve of him, but since he built a very successful organization, no one in the Tibetan hierarchy will directly criticize him. For this reason, people will continue to be attracted to Shambhala. They have turned Trungpa into a very successful brand.
On another level, do you think that lack of merit can be a cause for someone to get involved with these kinds of organizations and "teachers"?
It is a shame. If people take even a little time to examine, they will find that there are plenty of authentic guru's available to us. Once again could this be a merit thing?
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Yes, by staying quiet they have turned it into a successful brand.
At the same time they give themselves leeway for similar behavior and create a space where such behavior is accepted. And on the circle goes.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
The Buddha predicted the rise of counterfeit Dharma, and so did Padmasambhava. Counterfeit Dharma existed during the time of the Buddha in the form of Devadatta's teachings.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Well, we should not paint them all with the same brush.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:33 pmI was primarily referring to the “acharyas” within the organization.conebeckham wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:58 pmI don't disagree, but.....what vetting process? For any teacher? Including Tibetan Lamas?
I mean, yes, some centers, esp. those established by major lineage figures, have appointed teachers and there is vetting going on, but these days there are many centers that have been set up by people, of any race/ethnicity/background, with no "vetting process."
Shambhala, being a more established institution, should have had checks and balances in place of course, but at the end of the day.....students need to have Eyes Wide Open.