Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Josef » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:53 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:19 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:33 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:58 pm


I don't disagree, but.....what vetting process? For any teacher? Including Tibetan Lamas?

I mean, yes, some centers, esp. those established by major lineage figures, have appointed teachers and there is vetting going on, but these days there are many centers that have been set up by people, of any race/ethnicity/background, with no "vetting process."

Shambhala, being a more established institution, should have had checks and balances in place of course, but at the end of the day.....students need to have Eyes Wide Open.
I was primarily referring to the “acharyas” within the organization.
Well, we should not paint them all with the same brush.
True.
Kye ma!
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Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by weitsicht » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:34 am

chimechodra wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:16 pm
It's unfortunate that this feeling turned out to be accurate.
Not unfortunate for you, you see confirmation about how well your intuition works.
Trusting in intuition is a good practise.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Palzang Jangchub » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:06 am

I keep coming back to the fact that legitimate Dharma teachings can be given by messed up individuals. I've seen this happen in my own experience with my entry onto the path (unbeknownst to me at the time) being thru a fledgling cult.

My friends exposed me to the Dharma while following this wannabe guru who controlled what they read, and on one trip i met this guy. He taught me a lesson on no-self that was very visceral and formative. I have since checked with legitimate teachers (specifically my Chan/Zen teacher, Guo Gu of Dharma Drum Mountain) about my understanding of his lesson and they've not been able to find fault.

This is why figures like Trungpa and Sogyal will endure, and not just because they've been endorsed by the lama establishment. Their writings resonate with people, inspire them to look deeper, and help lay out the path. The Tibetan Book of Living & Dying was the first book on Buddhism i read, and without it I'm quite certain my interest wouldn't have been piqued and this life would look very different right now.

Incidentally, is there any legit Buddhadharma on not leaping to judgment when an individual is accused of misconduct? How about defamation of character? I don't want to get into victim blaming (we have a bad enough rape culture already), but i do wonder if there will be some who'll use this to character assassinate people in Shambhala just because they can bring them down with the ship, so-to-speak. I guess it boils down to not wanting Lodro Rinzler to be guilty of this. Again, I've gained so much from his writing.

How many enemies of Dharma will see this as a golden opportunity to falsely accuse others out of malice towards these individuals and the organizations they're associated with? I think this is a question worth asking ourselves. False accusations can be just as damaging, and it's quite hard to change public opinion, even when claims can be proven false. Narratives tend to take on a life of their own once they're out in the ether...
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by gb9810 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:22 pm

nice try...

given the 1st half of your thesis - that helpful teachings/ideas can come from flawed individuals, which to me is obvious but beside the point here, why do you need to "not want Lodro to be guilty"?

Sure, in theory we too should wish that no one ever commits wrongdoings and therefore is never guilty. But the implication, in the current context, is that the accuser is therefore lying or possibly "an enemy of Dharma". Do you have any basis for this claim, or is it coming out of your wish to be part of "Team Lodro" as you like his writings?

as for the latter part of your post: the answer seems obvious too, of course there can be, which is why we see so few cases actually surfaced to the level of being reported in semi-reputable publications.

Of course, it does not automatically imply he is therefore guilty as alleged, but I suspect there is nothing factually wrong about him being accused of sexual misconduct and that an internal Shambhala investigation against him has been launched...etc.
Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:06 am
I keep coming back to the fact that legitimate Dharma teachings can be given by messed up individuals. I've seen this happen in my own experience with my entry onto the path (unbeknownst to me at the time) being thru a fledgling cult.

My friends exposed me to the Dharma while following this wannabe guru who controlled what they read, and on one trip i met this guy. He taught me a lesson on no-self that was very visceral and formative. I have since checked with legitimate teachers (specifically my Chan/Zen teacher, Guo Gu of Dharma Drum Mountain) about my understanding of his lesson and they've not been able to find fault.

This is why figures like Trungpa and Sogyal will endure, and not just because they've been endorsed by the lama establishment. Their writings resonate with people, inspire them to look deeper, and help lay out the path. The Tibetan Book of Living & Dying was the first book on Buddhism i read, and without it I'm quite certain my interest wouldn't have been piqued and this life would look very different right now.

Incidentally, is there any legit Buddhadharma on not leaping to judgment when an individual is accused of misconduct? How about defamation of character? I don't want to get into victim blaming (we have a bad enough rape culture already), but i do wonder if there will be some who'll use this to character assassinate people in Shambhala just because they can bring them down with the ship, so-to-speak. I guess it boils down to not wanting Lodro Rinzler to be guilty of this. Again, I've gained so much from his writing.

How many enemies of Dharma will see this as a golden opportunity to falsely accuse others out of malice towards these individuals and the organizations they're associated with? I think this is a question worth asking ourselves. False accusations can be just as damaging, and it's quite hard to change public opinion, even when claims can be proven false. Narratives tend to take on a life of their own once they're out in the ether...

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Rinchen Samphel » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:03 pm

gb9810 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:22 pm
nice try...

given the 1st half of your thesis - that helpful teachings/ideas can come from flawed individuals, which to me is obvious but beside the point here, why do you need to "not want Lodro to be guilty"?

Sure, in theory we too should wish that no one ever commits wrongdoings and therefore is never guilty. But the implication, in the current context, is that the accuser is therefore lying or possibly "an enemy of Dharma". Do you have any basis for this claim, or is it coming out of your wish to be part of "Team Lodro" as you like his writings?

as for the latter part of your post: the answer seems obvious too, of course there can be, which is why we see so few cases actually surfaced to the level of being reported in semi-reputable publications.

Of course, it does not automatically imply he is therefore guilty as alleged, but I suspect there is nothing factually wrong about him being accused of sexual misconduct and that an internal Shambhala investigation against him has been launched...etc.
I think Palzang actually makes a good point. With what is being delt with, and the platform it is generally being revealed on (social media), anyone can accuse anyone of anything now. And the moral highroad approach of "the victim is always right, and if you say anything otherwise you are victim blaming" is essentially the same as saying "guily until proven innocent" in regards to the one being accused, which could get sticky down the road in other circumstances. What Palzang is worried about here is understandable in my opinion.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Karma Dorje » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:47 pm

Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:06 am
How many enemies of Dharma will see this as a golden opportunity to falsely accuse others out of malice towards these individuals and the organizations they're associated with? I think this is a question worth asking ourselves. False accusations can be just as damaging, and it's quite hard to change public opinion, even when claims can be proven false. Narratives tend to take on a life of their own once they're out in the ether...
Respectfully, with "friends" of the Dharma acting deplorably, who needs enemies? Religious institutions are samsaric entities. It's not surprising that they have all the attendant power struggles, oppressive hierarchies and sexual abuses we find wherever people seek out power and status. It has precisely nothing to do with Dharma and everything to do with afflicted beings acting out the three poisons.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:06 am
I keep coming back to the fact that legitimate Dharma teachings can be given by messed up individuals.
But they have no blessings.
Incidentally, is there any legit Buddhadharma on not leaping to judgment when an individual is accused of misconduct? How about defamation of character?
One complaint, reserve judgment. Two complaints, raise eyebrow. Multitude of complaints -- pitchfork and torches time.
I guess it boils down to not wanting Lodro Rinzler to be guilty of this.
He pleaded guilty to being a creep and intimidating a women into giving him head, who repeatedly said no to him. Worse, he tried to convince her a sexual experience with him would help her get over her own sexual abuse issues. This is called "date rape,"
How many enemies of Dharma will see this as a golden opportunity to falsely accuse others out of malice towards these individuals and the organizations they're associated with? I think this is a question worth asking ourselves. False accusations can be just as damaging, and it's quite hard to change public opinion, even when claims can be proven false. Narratives tend to take on a life of their own once they're out in the ether...
The Dharma can never be tainted.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Rinchen Samphel » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:54 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 pm

The Dharma can never be tainted.
:good:

For some reason this solves my worry from my previous post too, thanks Malcolm.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Karma Dorje » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:17 pm

Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:54 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 pm

The Dharma can never be tainted.
:good:

For some reason this solves my worry from my previous post too, thanks Malcolm.
That's true, but the conditions for it to manifest in this world can definitely disappear. I think that wrongdoing by Dharma teachers is far more injurious to these conditions than any attempts by naysayers to tear down religious institutions out of malice.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:18 pm

Karma Dorje wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:17 pm
Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:54 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 pm

The Dharma can never be tainted.
:good:

For some reason this solves my worry from my previous post too, thanks Malcolm.
That's true, but the conditions for it to manifest in this world can definitely disappear. I think that wrongdoing by Dharma teachers is far more injurious to these conditions than any attempts by naysayers to tear down religious institutions out of malice.
Yes, the Buddha said Dharma can only de destroyed from within.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by chimechodra » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:44 pm

Terma wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:16 pm
It is awful that some consider these people teachers. Some people may feel like "belonging" to some kind of group when it comes to big "organizations" such as these. But I can't understand it. If one is really serious about their practice, then isn't it best to seek out authentic Master's from authentic lineages?

I couldn't imagine doing anything else.
In my case there was just simply no choice in the matter. Outside of attending a meditation session at a Kwan Um Center when I was around 21, I didn't officially get involved with dharma until I went through a break up, searched "meditation" on google maps, and the Shambhala Center was the first thing that popped up. When you're at that raw beginner level, you're not really putting much consideration into things. You go to the page, there's some nice photos, and it looks like a fine place to check out, so you go to a few classes.

Then you get seriously involved, and all the more senior folks constantly perpetuate the myth of Trungpa. You get caught up in it too. My heart was genuinely drawn to the teachings, particularly to Dzogchen, and that's when the questions started arising that helped me find Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, Shenphen Dawa Rinpoche, and other great genuine Dzogchen masters. I felt incredibly stifled by the slow and expensive ladder that Shambhala puts you through to get access to "Vajrayana" teachings. They try to force you into this slow progression by subtly insinuating that you were not yet ready, that you were too samsaric, too confused for such teachings, while never mentioning that this was only one of many valid approaches, and that some teachers actually encourage jumping straight in (with the usual caveats of samaya included, of course).

So ultimately I noticed that for myself and other folk, if you were genuinely interested in the teachings, often times that would help prove the impetus to break free of Shambhala. But by the time genuine devotion for the teachings has arisen, it has been intermingled with loyalty to Shambhala and the institution and all the myths surrounding Trungpa and the Sakyong, and then teachers around you will often advise against "spiritual shopping" with the intent of keeping you locked into Shambhala. So you end up feeling very conflicted.

This was extremely confusing and somewhat painful, and I feel like for many, the decision to just simply leave and find an authentic master isn't so straightforward.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:47 pm

chimechodra wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:44 pm

So ultimately I noticed that for myself and other folk, if you were genuinely interested in the teachings, often times that would help prove the impetus to break free of Shambhala. But by the time genuine devotion for the teachings has arisen, it has been intermingled with loyalty to Shambhala and the institution and all the myths surrounding Trungpa and the Sakyong, and then teachers around you will often advise against "spiritual shopping" with the intent of keeping you locked into Shambhala.
This is called "Corporate Dharma."

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:51 pm

I [unintentionally] puked myself.

Kevin...

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by gb9810 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:19 pm

Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:03 pm
gb9810 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:22 pm
nice try...

given the 1st half of your thesis - that helpful teachings/ideas can come from flawed individuals, which to me is obvious but beside the point here, why do you need to "not want Lodro to be guilty"?

Sure, in theory we too should wish that no one ever commits wrongdoings and therefore is never guilty. But the implication, in the current context, is that the accuser is therefore lying or possibly "an enemy of Dharma". Do you have any basis for this claim, or is it coming out of your wish to be part of "Team Lodro" as you like his writings?

as for the latter part of your post: the answer seems obvious too, of course there can be, which is why we see so few cases actually surfaced to the level of being reported in semi-reputable publications.

Of course, it does not automatically imply he is therefore guilty as alleged, but I suspect there is nothing factually wrong about him being accused of sexual misconduct and that an internal Shambhala investigation against him has been launched...etc.
I think Palzang actually makes a good point. With what is being delt with, and the platform it is generally being revealed on (social media), anyone can accuse anyone of anything now. And the moral highroad approach of "the victim is always right, and if you say anything otherwise you are victim blaming" is essentially the same as saying "guily until proven innocent" in regards to the one being accused, which could get sticky down the road in other circumstances. What Palzang is worried about here is understandable in my opinion.
there is nothing wrong with reminding people that one should not equate guilty with allegation. There is also nothing wrong with reminding people that we don't need to toss the baby out with the bath water.

My point is that his own post betrays his own messages, hence I said "good try"
i.e. he prefers one outcome over the other because he personally favors it
and he favors it because he feels the baby would be tossed out too?

it's the inconsistencies that I am pointing, not the basic messages.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:22 pm

People who rape people are not Dharma practitioners, to even think of calling them teachers of the Dharma is negative in the extreme.
As in go do Vajrasattva for even having that thought.

Kevin...

P.S. In attempting to quote part of my post I accidentally edited it instead, and it is no longer in my back browser, so it is gone.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Palzang Jangchub » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:29 pm

gb9810 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:19 pm
Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:03 pm
gb9810 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:22 pm
nice try...

given the 1st half of your thesis - that helpful teachings/ideas can come from flawed individuals, which to me is obvious but beside the point here, why do you need to "not want Lodro to be guilty"?

Sure, in theory we too should wish that no one ever commits wrongdoings and therefore is never guilty. But the implication, in the current context, is that the accuser is therefore lying or possibly "an enemy of Dharma". Do you have any basis for this claim, or is it coming out of your wish to be part of "Team Lodro" as you like his writings?

as for the latter part of your post: the answer seems obvious too, of course there can be, which is why we see so few cases actually surfaced to the level of being reported in semi-reputable publications.

Of course, it does not automatically imply he is therefore guilty as alleged, but I suspect there is nothing factually wrong about him being accused of sexual misconduct and that an internal Shambhala investigation against him has been launched...etc.
I think Palzang actually makes a good point. With what is being delt with, and the platform it is generally being revealed on (social media), anyone can accuse anyone of anything now. And the moral highroad approach of "the victim is always right, and if you say anything otherwise you are victim blaming" is essentially the same as saying "guily until proven innocent" in regards to the one being accused, which could get sticky down the road in other circumstances. What Palzang is worried about here is understandable in my opinion.
there is nothing wrong with reminding people that one should not equate guilty with allegation. There is also nothing wrong with reminding people that we don't need to toss the baby out with the bath water.

My point is that his own post betrays his own messages, hence I said "good try"
i.e. he prefers one outcome over the other because he personally favors it
and he favors it because he feels the baby would be tossed out too?

it's the inconsistencies that I am pointing, not the basic messages.
My initial read of your response was that you were accusing me of being a Shambhala apologist of some sort, coming to his defense. If he truly did these things, as Malcolm states, then there's no defending him. Anyone familiar with me and my posts knows the lineage i practice is certainly not Shambhala. I never felt comfortable with their paid courses setup enough to visit the local center while i was attending uni. I've also suffered at the hands of a somewhat similar power dynamic (my father's ex-lover and my mom's friend who was like a mom to me as well), so you won't find me defending abusers and rapists in the slightest. #MeToo

Wanting someone not to be guilty of being an abuser comes from wanting them to be able to benefit beings, as from my readings of LR's work there's real potential there. I similarly don't want any teachers to abuse or rape their students. I didn't want Sogyal Lakar to be guilty of it either, but there's been a long history of accusations and rumors streaming from Rigpa for some time now.

I've personally never really heard or read Ösel Mukpo's teachings to comment either way, but as a father his admitted actions are appalling to me.

I'm processing my cognitive dissonance regarding LR and trying to reconcile the author with the accusations is all...
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 pm
Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:06 am
I keep coming back to the fact that legitimate Dharma teachings can be given by messed up individuals.
But they have no blessings.
Blessings are from realized masters in pure lineages, sure. I'm not saying seek these bad eggs out because they can still teach legit Dharma. I'm saying that the Dharma is pure and even bad eggs can impart good Dharma, so if you happen to have been involved with such a teacher or center or group you might not need to throw it all out. Get out of the corporate model or the cult and then examine the teachings of others to see if anything you took from prior is worth keeping.
Malcolm wrote:
Incidentally, is there any legit Buddhadharma on not leaping to judgment when an individual is accused of misconduct? How about defamation of character?
One complaint, reserve judgment. Two complaints, raise eyebrow. Multitude of complaints -- pitchfork and torches time.
I meant more from historical masters, but i take your meaning, certainly. My only caveat would be to examine the source of the accusations (plural) to make sure it's not simply a spurned or disillusioned group of former followers coordinating to take down a teacher they don't like, tainting him or her as best they can. That would be a real shame. I'm sure it happens, but it's more likely that victims don't feel comfortable coming forward until others have.
Malcolm wrote:
I guess it boils down to not wanting Lodro Rinzler to be guilty of this.
He pleaded guilty to being a creep and intimidating a women into giving him head, who repeatedly said no to him. Worse, he tried to convince her a sexual experience with him would help her get over her own sexual abuse issues. This is called "date rape,"
The ThinkProgress article read like he was only accused, not that he'd given an admission of guilt. If i missed tat somehow, please post the link(s).

Also, "plead guilty" makes it sound like he admitted this after being finally charged by the law and having his day in court. As far as i know, no criminal charges have been filed in any of these cases. Arguably there should be tons of charges leveled against multiple people, including the staff who concealed the abuse and allowed it to continue.

Just wondering out loud about people's tendency to jump on the bandwagon. I know false accusations can be just as damning, especially with social media. People hardly check the sources of articles and videos these days, let alone anything else. Things are taken as gospel and the court of public opinion tries people far more swiftly than the actual legal system.
Malcolm wrote:
How many enemies of Dharma will see this as a golden opportunity to falsely accuse others out of malice towards these individuals and the organizations they're associated with? I think this is a question worth asking ourselves. False accusations can be just as damaging, and it's quite hard to change public opinion, even when claims can be proven false. Narratives tend to take on a life of their own once they're out in the ether...
The Dharma can never be tainted.
Not worried about the Dharma dying off. I'm confident that what Garchen Rinpoche said in Yogis of Tibet is true: Every time there is a dip in the presence of the Buddha's teachings there is likewise an increase to compensate eventually. I was thinking specifically about the reputations of individuals, and how their personal and professional lives could be ruined or drastically altered in a few instants...
Last edited by Palzang Jangchub on Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:41 pm

Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:29 pm

The ThinkProgress article read like he was only accused, not that he'd given an admission of guilt. If i missed tat somehow, please post the link(s).

Also, "plead guilty" makes it sound like he admitted this after being finally charged by the law and having his day in court.
Rinzler was “heartbroken” over the “real mistakes” he made with Amy, Simmer-Brown wrote
This is what he was "heartbroken" about, the "real mistake" he made:
In a last-ditch effort to get through to Rinzler, she told him again that she didn’t want to have sex, and when he asked why, she revealed that she’d been sexually abused in the past. Instead of offering understanding and empathy, Amy said, Rinzler suggested that sleeping with him could help her break through the trust issues from her past trauma.

Then he began to touch her again, and she froze. She felt paralyzed, she said in an interview — as if she wasn’t in control of her own body. Tired, drunk, and dissociated, she said that she performed oral sex on Rinzler in the hope it would make him stop.

“I thought, ‘OK, I’m doing this to get him off of me without having to have sex with him and just survive,'” she said.
This guy is a boundary-less creep. Not someone who can be trusted with with students.

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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Palzang Jangchub » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:06 pm

Apparently i didn't read the whole article. I saw ads and wrongly thought i had reached the conclusion. Now that I've read it i agree. If that's what he really did (and all statements thus far seem to corroborate that it was reported as such years ago), then he's a total creep and has no business offering advice to anyone...
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:22 pm

Karma Dorje wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:17 pm
Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:54 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 pm

The Dharma can never be tainted.
:good:

For some reason this solves my worry from my previous post too, thanks Malcolm.
That's true, but the conditions for it to manifest in this world can definitely disappear. I think that wrongdoing by Dharma teachers is far more injurious to these conditions than any attempts by naysayers to tear down religious institutions out of malice.
:good:
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:30 pm

smcj wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:06 pm
I'm beginning to think that the only Buddha Field we really need these days is when all war, social injustice, disease, poverty, and ecological problems are solved. Plus animal rights, veganism, renewable energy, and a guarantee of personal fulfillment for every individual at birth. Plus this arrangement is locked in so it does not change, it never becomes boring, and no new problems are created by this arrangement. Everything must be just right on my terms, according to my criteria. Then and only then will I put aside my objections, criticisms, and demands. That’s what we need before we can see the world as a Buddha Field.

*****

Sorry for the sarcasm, but the point took less typing that way.
You really gonna jump into a thread about the serious sexual abuse of women and conflate it as some kind of pie in the sky Polyanna-ism? What a crap thing to do. Focus on the fact that women are actually being abused, and not whatever bone you are picking at.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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