How do you know you will reach old age and retirement? You don't. Death can come at any moment and your opportunity to reach enlightenment will disappear. So better to do what you can now since you don't know if you will have an opportunity in the next life.
Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
- treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Even if you live that long chances are your health will not allow you to become anything like a yogi, unless you mean one wandering hospital alleys most of the time. All assuming your brain is still functioning properly at that time, which is becoming increasingly less likely.Grigoris wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:16 amHow do you know you will reach old age and retirement? You don't. Death can come at any moment and your opportunity to reach enlightenment will disappear. So better to do what you can now since you don't know if you will have an opportunity in the next life.
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
It is said, wisdom without method is bondage.Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:11 pmI don't think I've ever heard of someone who could do that. Then again I have not really read many namthars.
I am just mentioning it because lately I think a lot of people here seem to suggest that as long as someone is a Dzogchen/Mahamudra practitioner there is no need for renunciation etc. But unless the person in question is of extremely high capacity that does not seem correct.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Perhaps if by homeless in the woods in a tent. Ok. Homeless in a city is horribly filthy. Most rural now is overrun with criminality. There’s really nothing wrong with a middle way approach. Just live in your means and adjust your schedule. It really helps to get educated and have options. Always remember Indrabhuti. 500 in the harem and ran his kingdom. Also able to emanate and give teachings. Not that he was a super bodhisattva already. Buddha emanated the super mandala. Milarepa said if people say I’m a reborn bodhisattva or an emanation they slander the vajrayana, because it is only because of the methods he was able to realize Mahamudra. Kukkuraja taught all day long and did ganachakrapuja at night. And was enlightened in 12 yrs.Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:24 pmUnfortunately it does not really matter if the option to live in a cave does not exist in the first placeGrigoris wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:19 pmI agree with you, just saying...Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:11 pmI am just mentioning it because lately I think a lot of people here seem to suggest that as long as someone is a Dzogchen/Mahamudra practitioner there is no need for renunciation etc. But unless the person in question is of extremely high capacity that does not seem correct.
I think the only real choice for someone who wants to go for full renunciation in the west nowadays is to live as a homeless person. Much less romantic than living in a cave.
The challenge is not so much the lifestyle you have but integrating the method with it. It is very doable. So learn as much about as many tantras as you can or termas if that’s your deal and figure out how to apply.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Perhaps if by homeless in the woods in a tent. Ok. Homeless in a city is horribly filthy. Most rural now is overrun with criminality. There’s really nothing wrong with a middle way approach. Just live in your means and adjust your schedule. It really helps to get educated and have options. Always remember Indrabhuti. 500 in the harem and ran his kingdom. Also able to emanate and give teachings. Not that he was a super bodhisattva already. Buddha emanated the super mandala. Milarepa said if people say I’m a reborn bodhisattva or an emanation they slander the vajrayana, because it is only because of the methods he was able to realize Mahamudra. Kukkuraja taught all day long and did ganachakrapuja at night. And was enlightened in 12 yrs.Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:24 pmUnfortunately it does not really matter if the option to live in a cave does not exist in the first placeGrigoris wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:19 pmI agree with you, just saying...Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:11 pmI am just mentioning it because lately I think a lot of people here seem to suggest that as long as someone is a Dzogchen/Mahamudra practitioner there is no need for renunciation etc. But unless the person in question is of extremely high capacity that does not seem correct.
I think the only real choice for someone who wants to go for full renunciation in the west nowadays is to live as a homeless person. Much less romantic than living in a cave.
The challenge is not so much the lifestyle you have but integrating the method with it. It is very doable. So learn as much about as many tantras as you can or termas if that’s your deal and figure out how to apply.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Usually, most die of old age. For now, I mean it may be best to stick with sutras and "basic mantras."Grigoris wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:16 amHow do you know you will reach old age and retirement? You don't. Death can come at any moment and your opportunity to reach enlightenment will disappear. So better to do what you can now since you don't know if you will have an opportunity in the next life.
- Könchok Thrinley
- Former staff member
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Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Yes, that would be ideal. However, the chances of us reaching retirentment age are getting slimmer and slimmer with ageing society. I think it is better to think like a yogi now and not wait for "one day". As CCR said someday never comes.Tenma wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:19 amPerhaps everyone should become one once they become old and retired. It's a good aesthetic after all. As I quote Confucius:
“The Master says: At 15 I set my heart on learning, at 30 I know where I stood, at 40 I have no more doubts, at 50 I knew the will of Heaven (life’s purpose), at 60 my ears were attuned (i.e. my moral sense was developed), and at 70 I followed my heart’s desire without crossing the line.”
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Statistics to support your claim?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Best strategy ever: give up samsara, gather cash, go on 3 years retreat near u (if possible), learn a lot before (language, rituals, tormas, mandalas, philosophy, texts), meditate a lot, achieve realisation, start teaching.
Whats the point of practicing if we still hunt for the moon reflected in the lake. My small brain tells me that dying starts now, so no point in delaying things . The more realized lamas, the less sentient beeings to tame and free (yea, sure...) and the more Dharma spreaded.
Ps. https://kagyuoffice.org/the-four-though ... m-samsara/
Luke
Whats the point of practicing if we still hunt for the moon reflected in the lake. My small brain tells me that dying starts now, so no point in delaying things . The more realized lamas, the less sentient beeings to tame and free (yea, sure...) and the more Dharma spreaded.
Ps. https://kagyuoffice.org/the-four-though ... m-samsara/
Luke
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Dream yoga
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
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Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
I think it was Malcolm who said: "Don't integrate Dharma into your life. Integrate your life into the Dharma." Thought that was pretty good.
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
I have studied a lot academically, but things that are useless commercially. In any case, I discovered recently that I cannot be bothered enough to work on improving my chances in this regard. My current solution is temporary shitjobs which I can drop every few weeks when there is something I want to attend.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:48 amPerhaps if by homeless in the woods in a tent. Ok. Homeless in a city is horribly filthy. Most rural now is overrun with criminality. There’s really nothing wrong with a middle way approach. Just live in your means and adjust your schedule. It really helps to get educated and have options. Always remember Indrabhuti. 500 in the harem and ran his kingdom. Also able to emanate and give teachings. Not that he was a super bodhisattva already. Buddha emanated the super mandala. Milarepa said if people say I’m a reborn bodhisattva or an emanation they slander the vajrayana, because it is only because of the methods he was able to realize Mahamudra. Kukkuraja taught all day long and did ganachakrapuja at night. And was enlightened in 12 yrs.Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:24 pmUnfortunately it does not really matter if the option to live in a cave does not exist in the first place
I think the only real choice for someone who wants to go for full renunciation in the west nowadays is to live as a homeless person. Much less romantic than living in a cave.
The challenge is not so much the lifestyle you have but integrating the method with it. It is very doable. So learn as much about as many tantras as you can or termas if that’s your deal and figure out how to apply.
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
So your entire argument relies on an unsubstantiated/baseless claim.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Keep moving budAryjna wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:48 pmI have studied a lot academically, but things that are useless commercially. In any case, I discovered recently that I cannot be bothered enough to work on improving my chances in this regard. My current solution is temporary shitjobs which I can drop every few weeks when there is something I want to attend.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:48 amPerhaps if by homeless in the woods in a tent. Ok. Homeless in a city is horribly filthy. Most rural now is overrun with criminality. There’s really nothing wrong with a middle way approach. Just live in your means and adjust your schedule. It really helps to get educated and have options. Always remember Indrabhuti. 500 in the harem and ran his kingdom. Also able to emanate and give teachings. Not that he was a super bodhisattva already. Buddha emanated the super mandala. Milarepa said if people say I’m a reborn bodhisattva or an emanation they slander the vajrayana, because it is only because of the methods he was able to realize Mahamudra. Kukkuraja taught all day long and did ganachakrapuja at night. And was enlightened in 12 yrs.Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:24 pm
Unfortunately it does not really matter if the option to live in a cave does not exist in the first place
I think the only real choice for someone who wants to go for full renunciation in the west nowadays is to live as a homeless person. Much less romantic than living in a cave.
The challenge is not so much the lifestyle you have but integrating the method with it. It is very doable. So learn as much about as many tantras as you can or termas if that’s your deal and figure out how to apply.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Technically, yes. Mais, je m'en fou!
Re: Strategies for Keeping Practice in the West
Generally it seems that most people live until they are relatively old. It is not that easy to find specific statistics simply on who dies before a somewhat old age, but violent or early death seems quite low, as it seems here for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortality ... ld_map.PNG
But that doesn't really change anything. Even if the chance is low, it can still happen to anyone, and if one waits until they are 65-70 to practice by then it will probably be too late if they have not practiced enough to have a clue what they are doing by that time. Also, all kinds of things may be obstacles to practice, being dead is not the only one, which severely complicates things even in the case of someone who lives very long.
http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=587
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health ... ading-Zero
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health ... es-cancers
But that doesn't really change anything. Even if the chance is low, it can still happen to anyone, and if one waits until they are 65-70 to practice by then it will probably be too late if they have not practiced enough to have a clue what they are doing by that time. Also, all kinds of things may be obstacles to practice, being dead is not the only one, which severely complicates things even in the case of someone who lives very long.
http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=587
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health ... ading-Zero
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health ... es-cancers