I can only recommend this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCokRyL ... g/featuredKarma Dorje wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:36 pm Context is everything. Some people in modern society pay a lot of money to be beaten with a cane.
Maybe Buddhadharma needs some safe words?
What's the point of abusive gurus?
- Könchok Thrinley
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Re: What's the point of abusive gurus?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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Re: What's the point of abusive gurus?
heart wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:32 pmFirst, the pdf is notes from a teaching, not the teaching itself. The person that made the notes don't seem very open to what OTR says. Nevertheless OTR take on this is that once you take an empowerment you have to follow the Samaya. It is actually explained just the way it is. Doubts and disbelief is not considered positive and have to be purified, so this is why we do so much tsog and purification practices in Vajrayana. For this reason, if you want to be really close to your master, you better investigate the master before getting seriously involved with him/her. There are plenty of stories about Tibetan masters being violent with their students, OTR names a few of them. There is a saying that Tibetans have; "if you get to close to the master you can get burned, if you stay to far a way you can't feel the heat". Perhaps something to think about.Veritaseaon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:12 am The point of abusive guru's is to cause harm and control others. Abuse can also be indirect eg; neglecting someone under your care.
There is a common conception in some dharma circles that a lama can purify a student's negative karma by physically harming them.
Do any of the sutras, tantra or commentaries explain how a buddhist teacher can use physical or emotional harm to guide a student on any of the paths?
When I hear lamas stating publicly that they beat there students, it makes me wonder why they would do such a thing. Also, why would they say it publicly?
Can any of these lamas can explain how beating their student helps the student develop the realisation of the paths within there mental continuum's?
If not, why not? Is this a secret method used by vajra masters? If so, why do they boast about it publicly?
Orgyan Tobgyal had openly said he sees nothing wrong with gurus beating students (see PDF.)
Why would he do such a thing? And why would he talk about it publicly? These questions are reasonable and need to be asked. I wonder how he would go in a fight with a trained opponent. I bet we would see if he is a mahasiddha or a normal person pretty quickly.
/magnus
An explanation of how beating a student helps them develop the paths in their continuums would be helpful.
I have not come across one, nor any one willing to discuss this point.
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Re: What's the point of abusive gurus?
Such statements are of no use.Miroku wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:01 pmI can only recommend this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCokRyL ... g/featuredKarma Dorje wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:36 pm Context is everything. Some people in modern society pay a lot of money to be beaten with a cane.
Maybe Buddhadharma needs some safe words?
It is a serious issue.
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Re: What's the point of abusive gurus?
Exercising your right to free speech are you?Miroku wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:01 pmI can only recommend this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCokRyL ... g/featuredKarma Dorje wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:36 pm Context is everything. Some people in modern society pay a lot of money to be beaten with a cane.
Maybe Buddhadharma needs some safe words?
What a waiste of that right and the ability to express ideas. Obviously never been beaten up either
Re: What's the point of abusive gurus?
I wrote a post about how rude this was and what a nonsensical assumtion it posits, but I erased it.Veritaseaon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:53 pmExercising your right to free speech are you?Miroku wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:01 pmI can only recommend this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCokRyL ... g/featuredKarma Dorje wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:36 pm Context is everything. Some people in modern society pay a lot of money to be beaten with a cane.
Maybe Buddhadharma needs some safe words?
What a waiste of that right and the ability to express ideas. Obviously never been beaten up either
Instead I thought I might suggest, instead of being so reactionary and deciding you know all about others' lives, why not exercise your "freedom of speech" (as appropriate a phrase as that may or may not be in a private moderate forum) and actually explain what specifically you find so inappropriate and why.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: What's the point of abusive gurus?
The reference to safe words.climb-up wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:12 amI wrote a post about how rude this was and what a nonsensical assumtion it posits, but I erased it.Veritaseaon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:53 pmExercising your right to free speech are you?Miroku wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:01 pm
I can only recommend this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCokRyL ... g/featured
What a waiste of that right and the ability to express ideas. Obviously never been beaten up either
Instead I thought I might suggest, instead of being so reactionary and deciding you know all about others' lives, why not exercise your "freedom of speech" (as appropriate a phrase as that may or may not be in a private moderate forum) and actually explain what specifically you find so inappropriate and why.
Abuse is no joke.