How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

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Tenma
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How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Tenma » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:34 pm

How does one make a long-life prayer more effective? I've been reciting H.H. Sakya Trichen's long-life prayer, H.H. Dalai Lama, and my own teachers, but I am now having dreams of seeing what seems to be the Sakya Trichen's funeral including seeing his dead body. This doesn't look like a good sign.

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 am

Tenma wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:34 pm
How does one make a long-life prayer more effective? I've been reciting H.H. Sakya Trichen's long-life prayer, H.H. Dalai Lama, and my own teachers, but I am now having dreams of seeing what seems to be the Sakya Trichen's funeral including seeing his dead body. This doesn't look like a good sign.
We start thinking about long-life prayers sometimes when we're fearful of our eventual death, or insecure about losing people close to us. This is not a bad thing; it means you have work to do.

Long-life prayers are really not about prolonging physical life or health at all, but about prolonging the life of someone's teachings/lineage/the Buddhadharma in general. Otherwise, an extended life has no beneficial purpose for anyone. Understanding this, your prayers will be effective.

Long-life prayers should inspire you to take to heart the teachings of those you admire while you still have the opportunity. Make them proud, and improve the world, by practicing dharma. This is the best way to bring joy to the lamas & fulfill their wishes.

Lastly, seeing someone's death in a dream may not be a bad omen. Bad things happening in dreams is sometimes a sign that the karma was averted from ripening in your waking life.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

Tenma
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Tenma » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:01 pm

kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 am
Tenma wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:34 pm
How does one make a long-life prayer more effective? I've been reciting H.H. Sakya Trichen's long-life prayer, H.H. Dalai Lama, and my own teachers, but I am now having dreams of seeing what seems to be the Sakya Trichen's funeral including seeing his dead body. This doesn't look like a good sign.
We start thinking about long-life prayers sometimes when we're fearful of our eventual death, or insecure about losing people close to us. This is not a bad thing; it means you have work to do.

Long-life prayers are really not about prolonging physical life or health at all, but about prolonging the life of someone's teachings/lineage/the Buddhadharma in general. Otherwise, an extended life has no beneficial purpose for anyone. Understanding this, your prayers will be effective.

Long-life prayers should inspire you to take to heart the teachings of those you admire while you still have the opportunity. Make them proud, and improve the world, by practicing dharma. This is the best way to bring joy to the lamas & fulfill their wishes.

Lastly, seeing someone's death in a dream may not be a bad omen. Bad things happening in dreams is sometimes a sign that the karma was averted from ripening in your waking life.
What does H.H. dying mean though? And what do you mean by ripening? Isn't karma supposed to ripen as purification?

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Grigoris
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:21 pm

Tenma wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:01 pm
What does H.H. dying mean though?
It could mean anything. Generally speaking: most dreams are just mental flatulence.
And what do you mean by ripening? Isn't karma supposed to ripen as purification?
No. If all ripening lead to purification all sentient beings would have been liberated by now.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:28 pm

Tenma wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:01 pm
What does H.H. dying mean though?
It's bringing up emotions you need to process.

See him clearly, with equanimity, and you can benefit him.

The physical body was always destined to go, but, as my teacher told me, "no one's guru ever died."
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

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Virgo
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:51 am

kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 am

Long-life prayers are really not about prolonging physical life or health at all,
Wrong.

Kevin...

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:58 am

Virgo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:51 am
kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 am

Long-life prayers are really not about prolonging physical life or health at all,
Wrong.

Kevin...
This life is nothing, and the lamas know that. They just want to propagate the teaching. If they need to stay longer in a body to do that, they will... but it's our mind that transforms, nothing about the lamas themselves.

Buddhas don't need our offerings; they are pleased by the sincerity of our practice. If we compose or recite a long-life prayer with the correct motivation, this pleases them.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

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Virgo
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:00 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:58 am
Virgo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:51 am
kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 am

Long-life prayers are really not about prolonging physical life or health at all,
Wrong.

Kevin...
This life is nothing, and the lamas know that. They just want to propagate the teaching. If they need to stay longer in a body to do that, they will...
Fine, but that is not the same as "Long-life prayers are really nto about prolonging physical life or health at all."

Kevin...

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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:03 am

kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 am

Long-life prayers are really not about prolonging physical life or health at all, but about prolonging the life of someone's teachings/lineage/the Buddhadharma in general. Otherwise, an extended life has no beneficial purpose for anyone. Understanding this, your prayers will be effective.
Long life prayers for lamas are absolutely about promoting the health and long lifespan of their current lives. These prayers are addressed to their specific names; and when they pass into parinirvana and a tulku is found, a new long-life prayer is written by some esteemed lama referencing the new incarnation by name. The words in them typically say things like, "may the life of [lama such & such] be firm and long, remaining for 100 years" and so on. Or, "may the reincarnation of such and such be firm & long", etc. The way to prolong Dharma lineages is to gain stable realization and then propagate them.

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:08 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:03 am
kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 am

Long-life prayers are really not about prolonging physical life or health at all, but about prolonging the life of someone's teachings/lineage/the Buddhadharma in general. Otherwise, an extended life has no beneficial purpose for anyone. Understanding this, your prayers will be effective.
Long life prayers for lamas are absolutely about promoting the health and long lifespan of their current lives. They are addressed to their specific names. The words in them typically say things like, "may the life of [lama such & such] be firm and long, remaining for 100 years" and so on. The way to prolong Dharma lineages is to gain stable realization and then propagate them.
Do you think the lamas see it that way?

It has always been for our benefit, never anything else.

What I'm attempting to say is that "long life" is only desirable for the right reasons (i.e., not simply to forestall death).
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:16 am

Virgo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:00 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:58 am
Virgo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:51 am


Wrong.

Kevin...
This life is nothing, and the lamas know that. They just want to propagate the teaching. If they need to stay longer in a body to do that, they will...
Fine, but that is not the same as "Long-life prayers are really nto about prolonging physical life or health at all."

Kevin...
Not according to my interpretation, at least.

The body is a vehicle, and enlightened beings make full use of it. Death holds no sway over them. They simply do what is needed.

That being said, if you see it differently, practice according to your conscience.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

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Virgo
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:29 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:16 am

The body is a vehicle, and enlightened beings make full use of it. Death holds no sway over them. They simply do what is needed.

That being said, if you see it differently, practice according to your conscience.
That's ridiculous.

Kevin...

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:34 am

Virgo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:29 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:16 am

The body is a vehicle, and enlightened beings make full use of it. Death holds no sway over them. They simply do what is needed.

That being said, if you see it differently, practice according to your conscience.
That's ridiculous.

Kevin...
If I made you laugh, I'd count that as a success. (I'm really lowering the bar, I see.)
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

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Virgo
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:35 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:34 am
Virgo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:29 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:16 am

The body is a vehicle, and enlightened beings make full use of it. Death holds no sway over them. They simply do what is needed.

That being said, if you see it differently, practice according to your conscience.
That's ridiculous.

Kevin...
If I made you laugh, I'd count that as a success. (I'm really lowering the bar, I see.)
No, your claim that lamas hold sway over death is a ridiculous claim.

Kevin...

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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:35 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:08 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:03 am
kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 am

Long-life prayers are really not about prolonging physical life or health at all, but about prolonging the life of someone's teachings/lineage/the Buddhadharma in general. Otherwise, an extended life has no beneficial purpose for anyone. Understanding this, your prayers will be effective.
Long life prayers for lamas are absolutely about promoting the health and long lifespan of their current lives. They are addressed to their specific names. The words in them typically say things like, "may the life of [lama such & such] be firm and long, remaining for 100 years" and so on. The way to prolong Dharma lineages is to gain stable realization and then propagate them.
Do you think the lamas see it that way?

It has always been for our benefit, never anything else.

What I'm attempting to say is that "long life" is only desirable for the right reasons (i.e., not simply to forestall death).
It would seem you and I are actually expressing the same thing at the level of intent, but that I'm speaking in practical, ordinary terms and you're speaking more... poetically? No matter how one phrases it, the lama's human body is the vehicle for guidance in the nirmanakaya dimension, so what's needed is for it to remain strong and healthy to continue its work. For that reason, I choose to speak more matter-of-factly about it. We're literally praying that they have good health and a long life. Most correctly, we pray for this so they may continue to guide us and others; but if we're honest, we also say these prayers with understandable attachment as well.

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:39 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:35 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:08 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:03 am


Long life prayers for lamas are absolutely about promoting the health and long lifespan of their current lives. They are addressed to their specific names. The words in them typically say things like, "may the life of [lama such & such] be firm and long, remaining for 100 years" and so on. The way to prolong Dharma lineages is to gain stable realization and then propagate them.
Do you think the lamas see it that way?

It has always been for our benefit, never anything else.

What I'm attempting to say is that "long life" is only desirable for the right reasons (i.e., not simply to forestall death).
It would seem you and I are actually expressing the same thing at the level of intent, but that I'm speaking in practical, ordinary terms and you're speaking more... poetically? No matter how one phrases it, the lama's human body is the vehicle for guidance in the nirmanakaya dimension, so what's needed is for it to remain strong and healthy to continue its work. For that reason, I choose to speak more matter-of-factly about it. We're literally praying that they have good health and a long life. Most correctly, we pray for this so they may continue to guide us and others; but if we're honest, we also say these prayers with understandable attachment as well.
I'm glad you see my intent. Where you see a matter-of-fact explanation, I see an opportunity to fool myself. My analysis is an attempt to stop that from happening, and put myself in my place.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:46 am

Virgo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:35 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:34 am
Virgo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:29 am

That's ridiculous.

Kevin...
If I made you laugh, I'd count that as a success. (I'm really lowering the bar, I see.)
No, your claim that lamas hold sway over death is a ridiculous claim.

Kevin...
Who are we to put limits on them?
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

amanitamusc
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:20 am

kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:28 pm
Tenma wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:01 pm
What does H.H. dying mean though?
It's bringing up emotions you need to process.

See him clearly, with equanimity, and you can benefit him.

The physical body was always destined to go, but, as my teacher told me, "no one's guru ever died."
Who is your teacher?

kausalya
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:49 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:20 am
kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:28 pm
Tenma wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:01 pm
What does H.H. dying mean though?
It's bringing up emotions you need to process.

See him clearly, with equanimity, and you can benefit him.

The physical body was always destined to go, but, as my teacher told me, "no one's guru ever died."
Who is your teacher?
My teacher is a nobody. Please address me instead.

Where do you think your guru goes after death? He/she has irrevocably altered the course of your life, and can go nowhere, even if going somewhere. The part that has been shared with you is always there (in lifetime after lifetime up to now). Cause and effect makes it so, and it will happen again. There is nothing to be attached to.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

amanitamusc
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Re: How to Make Long-Life Prayer More Effective?

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:33 pm

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:49 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:20 am
kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:28 pm


It's bringing up emotions you need to process.

See him clearly, with equanimity, and you can benefit him.

The physical body was always destined to go, but, as my teacher told me, "no one's guru ever died."
Who is your teacher?
My teacher is a nobody. Please address me instead.

Where do you think your guru goes after death? He/she has irrevocably altered the course of your life, and can go nowhere, even if going somewhere. The part that has been shared with you is always there (in lifetime after lifetime up to now). Cause and effect makes it so, and it will happen again. There is nothing to be attached to.
Even Kwai Chang Caine had teachers.

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