Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

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Kunzang Tobgyal
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:53 pm

Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by Kunzang Tobgyal » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:46 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:32 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:23 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:21 am


My mind is unreliable; I play it safe by being an idiot.
Whoever sold you that bill of goods did you a disservice.
Totally my choice. I was an intellectual, & found peace elsewhere.

Much like my stepmother stressed manners on the off-chance that the Queen would visit, I want to be ready for Vajrayogini in whatever form she takes.
You do realize that your playing it safe by being an idiot is an intellectually fabricated stance yes?

kausalya
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:48 am

Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:46 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:32 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:23 am


Whoever sold you that bill of goods did you a disservice.
Totally my choice. I was an intellectual, & found peace elsewhere.

Much like my stepmother stressed manners on the off-chance that the Queen would visit, I want to be ready for Vajrayogini in whatever form she takes.
You do realize that your playing it safe by being an idiot is an intellectually fabricated stance yes?
Nope, but taking this intellectual beating is helping with my pride.

I trained myself out of making assumptions on purpose.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

Kunzang Tobgyal
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:53 pm

Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by Kunzang Tobgyal » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:51 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:48 am
Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:46 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:32 am


Totally my choice. I was an intellectual, & found peace elsewhere.

Much like my stepmother stressed manners on the off-chance that the Queen would visit, I want to be ready for Vajrayogini in whatever form she takes.
You do realize that your playing it safe by being an idiot is an intellectually fabricated stance yes?
Nope, but taking this intellectual beating is helping with my pride.

I trained myself out of making assumptions on purpose.

Keep up the good work.

kausalya
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:52 pm

Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:54 am

Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:51 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:48 am
Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:46 am


You do realize that your playing it safe by being an idiot is an intellectually fabricated stance yes?
Nope, but taking this intellectual beating is helping with my pride.

I trained myself out of making assumptions on purpose.

Keep up the good work.

I didn't ask for this karma to ripen, just riding it out. Really puts it in perspective concerning what's important.

If I'm going to be wrong, may everyone else be right... and may they save me from my stupidity.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

Kunzang Tobgyal
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:53 pm

Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by Kunzang Tobgyal » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:56 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:54 am
Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:51 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:48 am


Nope, but taking this intellectual beating is helping with my pride.

I trained myself out of making assumptions on purpose.

Keep up the good work.

I didn't ask for this karma to ripen, just riding it out. Really puts it in perspective concerning what's important.

If I'm going to be wrong, may everyone else be right... and may they save me from my stupidity.
Just keep practicing. You'll be fine.

kausalya
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:52 pm

Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:57 am

Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:56 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:54 am
Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:51 am



Keep up the good work.

I didn't ask for this karma to ripen, just riding it out. Really puts it in perspective concerning what's important.

If I'm going to be wrong, may everyone else be right... and may they save me from my stupidity.
Just keep practicing. You'll be fine.
First good advice all day! :bow:
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

Kunzang Tobgyal
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:53 pm

Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by Kunzang Tobgyal » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:59 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:57 am
Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:56 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:54 am



I didn't ask for this karma to ripen, just riding it out. Really puts it in perspective concerning what's important.

If I'm going to be wrong, may everyone else be right... and may they save me from my stupidity.
Just keep practicing. You'll be fine.
First good advice all day! :bow:

:cheers:

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yan kong
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by yan kong » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:47 am

kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:32 am
Much like my stepmother stressed manners on the off-chance that the Queen would visit, I want to be ready for Vajrayogini in whatever form she takes.
We have expensive dishes and silverware in a locked cupboard. We're waiting for Tara to use them.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

amanitamusc
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:13 am

kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:58 pm
florin wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:53 pm
kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:49 pm


I do! Hello to you.

My behaviour is my only concern. As for others, I only have compassion.
You appear to be someone who's friends with the one with crazy wisdom.
Nuh uh. Never spoken with him.

I just realize I have no control over anything, so that's how it goes. I can only practice to be better at living, and communicate with those who see something valuable in what I say.
Oh boy, an aspiring teacher.

kausalya
Posts: 193
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:37 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:13 am
kausalya wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:58 pm
florin wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:53 pm


You appear to be someone who's friends with the one with crazy wisdom.
Nuh uh. Never spoken with him.

I just realize I have no control over anything, so that's how it goes. I can only practice to be better at living, and communicate with those who see something valuable in what I say.
Oh boy, an aspiring teacher.
Not at all. Just trying to get through this with my vows intact.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

kausalya
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:52 pm

Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by kausalya » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:37 am

yan kong wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:47 am
kausalya wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:32 am
Much like my stepmother stressed manners on the off-chance that the Queen would visit, I want to be ready for Vajrayogini in whatever form she takes.
We have expensive dishes and silverware in a locked cupboard. We're waiting for Tara to use them.
May you meet her!
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

SilenceMonkey
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by SilenceMonkey » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:47 am

So............ back to topic.

To reframe the question:

To take an empowerment without the intent to practice it... Or maybe without the intent to practice it continually until attainment. Should this be avoided? I'm sure many practitioners have received 10s if not 100s of transmissions and empowerments over the years. But there's no way anyone can practice all of that each day. So then, what's the point?

I assume that it would be to create a positive connection to Dharma (that teaching and teacher and lineage). Is this not what it means to "take empowerment as a blessing?"

Someone mentioned "mundane" blessings. I assume this means a blessing to make lots of money, luck in love, etc... At what point does a mundane blessing become beyond just that?
(Does it have to do with the intention at the moment of receiving the blessing, or the fluctuating view as you go through life? I was once taught by a ch'an teacher that without moment to moment awareness, our merit will be exhausted by unintentionally wishing for trivial things with the wandering mind.)


Next question:

Is it advisable to take empowerments outside of your own lineage, if only to establish a connection?

Is it unadvisable to practice outside of your main lineage?

PeterC
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by PeterC » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:41 am

SilenceMonkey wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:47 am
So............ back to topic.

To reframe the question:

To take an empowerment without the intent to practice it... Or maybe without the intent to practice it continually until attainment. Should this be avoided? I'm sure many practitioners have received 10s if not 100s of transmissions and empowerments over the years. But there's no way anyone can practice all of that each day. So then, what's the point?
Wanting to practice it at some point in the future is probably a sufficiently good reason. You never know when a certain empowerment might be available from any given lama. I would personally never receive an empowerment without at least (a) that and (b) complete confidence that I could maintain the basic practice commitment indefinitely, whatever that was
I assume that it would be to create a positive connection to Dharma (that teaching and teacher and lineage). Is this not what it means to "take empowerment as a blessing?"
I and others would maintain that "taking an empowerment as a blessing" means absolutely nothing. An empowerment is an empowerment, or it's a ceremony that you shouldn't have been present at because you weren't participating.
Someone mentioned "mundane" blessings. I assume this means a blessing to make lots of money, luck in love, etc... At what point does a mundane blessing become beyond just that?
(Does it have to do with the intention at the moment of receiving the blessing, or the fluctuating view as you go through life? I was once taught by a ch'an teacher that without moment to moment awareness, our merit will be exhausted by unintentionally wishing for trivial things with the wandering mind.)
Mundane in the sense of assisting with this life (longevity, health, wealth, etc.), which creates the conditions for practice that could in turn lead to enlightenment, but doesn't directly help you achieve it.
Next question:

Is it advisable to take empowerments outside of your own lineage, if only to establish a connection?

Is it unadvisable to practice outside of your main lineage?
"Your" lineage?

Your connection to your vajra master is considerably more important than your loyalty to an aggregation of practices and philosophical positions that has been designated as a 'lineage'. However why do you want to "establish a connection"? If you want to learn more about a teacher, then go listen to them (or read what they've written. If you have sufficient confidence to accept them as a guru, and want to, then receive empowerments from them. But this isn't Facebook - a "connection" doesn't really mean anything if it only consists of you having observed while he/she waved some ritual implements around.

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Grigoris
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:51 pm

philji wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:01 pm
Maybe we should all be interviewed at the door..maybe interrogated is a better word.......
This happened to me a few years ago. A Kagyu vajra master was to give two HYT empowerments and we had to pre-register stating who our teacher was, if we had done ngondro practices, etc...

I think that in some cases it is a very good idea.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:11 pm

SilenceMonkey wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:47 am
So............ back to topic.

To reframe the question:

To take an empowerment without the intent to practice it... Or maybe without the intent to practice it continually until attainment. Should this be avoided? I'm sure many practitioners have received 10s if not 100s of transmissions and empowerments over the years. But there's no way anyone can practice all of that each day. So then, what's the point?
Tendrel.
I assume that it would be to create a positive connection to Dharma (that teaching and teacher and lineage). Is this not what it means to "take empowerment as a blessing?"
Yes.

Is it advisable to take empowerments outside of your own lineage, if only to establish a connection?
Yes, if you have a sincere interest in the teacher in question.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:37 pm

PeterC wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:41 am
SilenceMonkey wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:47 am


Someone mentioned "mundane" blessings. I assume this means a blessing to make lots of money, luck in love, etc... At what point does a mundane blessing become beyond just that?
(Does it have to do with the intention at the moment of receiving the blessing, or the fluctuating view as you go through life? I was once taught by a ch'an teacher that without moment to moment awareness, our merit will be exhausted by unintentionally wishing for trivial things with the wandering mind.)
Mundane in the sense of assisting with this life (longevity, health, wealth, etc.), which creates the conditions for practice that could in turn lead to enlightenment, but doesn't directly help you achieve it.
i metioned "mundane blessing" to refer to a formulation intended for adorning transmigration and not to overcome it.

for example, afaik, empowerments of practices of norlha are connected to ratna family so the main point is to overcome pride and attain equanimity, and the same for the rest of emotions, by means of transformation; if so, then secondary stuff can manifest, etc. ... that's fine.

another example, if we go to a norlha empowerment not having at least the correct intention, or because we want more cattle, want riches, we like paraphernalia, we want to be part of a group, be famous, want to feel special, have something to talk about, etc. ... isn't it mundane? it is true that interdependece is there, but.... what a waste of evertyhing! and also can create problems, interdependence operates in every direction, not just on the student but also on the teacher, sangha, etc.

i don't know, maybe i'm "shiting out of the toilet", but i found this to be very important, it's just an opinion.
what are you doing

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:16 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:51 pm
philji wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:01 pm
Maybe we should all be interviewed at the door..maybe interrogated is a better word.......
This happened to me a few years ago. A Kagyu vajra master was to give two HYT empowerments and we had to pre-register stating who our teacher was, if we had done ngondro practices, etc...

I think that in some cases it is a very good idea.
good to know you are alive

ok :focus:
what are you doing

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tranides
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by tranides » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:01 pm

I have asked my teacher once - considering all dieties are same, is there a reason to recive many abishekas. He answered, that from personal practice perspective it has no reason at all. One guru yoga, one yidam and one dharmapala is all that we need. But if i want to become a teacher one day in this or next lives - then its most welcome to make connection with different practices, learn them and understand them so in future i can explain them to others.

Terma
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by Terma » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:19 am

tranides wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:01 pm
I have asked my teacher once - considering all dieties are same, is there a reason to recive many abishekas. He answered, that from personal practice perspective it has no reason at all. One guru yoga, one yidam and one dharmapala is all that we need. But if i want to become a teacher one day in this or next lives - then its most welcome to make connection with different practices, learn them and understand them so in future i can explain them to others.
I have often wondered about this kind of this also. I have really only received empowerments from a few teachers, Masters which I feel a very close connection with, and these days for practices that I am going to do. I'm not saying that this is the right way, but on a personal level I really feel that receiving an empowerment is a very, very special thing and something that I really treasure.

On the other side of the coin, I see people say "so-and-so Rinpoche is coming to town and he is giving such-and-such empowerment and they go to just about all of them. Once again, I'm not saying this is a wrong way to go but other than establishing a connection with an exceptional teacher I am not sure if it is helpful to receive so many empowerments for practices that people never intend on doing. Often times in these situations, an empowerments is given and people have no idea what sadhana it is even connected to and so-forth. Perhaps this is where people get the idea that "it was just a blessing"?

Don't really know what to make of it.

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Aryjna
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Re: Taking Empowerment as a Blessing

Post by Aryjna » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:50 pm

Terma wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:19 am
tranides wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:01 pm
I have asked my teacher once - considering all dieties are same, is there a reason to recive many abishekas. He answered, that from personal practice perspective it has no reason at all. One guru yoga, one yidam and one dharmapala is all that we need. But if i want to become a teacher one day in this or next lives - then its most welcome to make connection with different practices, learn them and understand them so in future i can explain them to others.
I have often wondered about this kind of this also. I have really only received empowerments from a few teachers, Masters which I feel a very close connection with, and these days for practices that I am going to do. I'm not saying that this is the right way, but on a personal level I really feel that receiving an empowerment is a very, very special thing and something that I really treasure.

On the other side of the coin, I see people say "so-and-so Rinpoche is coming to town and he is giving such-and-such empowerment and they go to just about all of them. Once again, I'm not saying this is a wrong way to go but other than establishing a connection with an exceptional teacher I am not sure if it is helpful to receive so many empowerments for practices that people never intend on doing. Often times in these situations, an empowerments is given and people have no idea what sadhana it is even connected to and so-forth. Perhaps this is where people get the idea that "it was just a blessing"?

Don't really know what to make of it.
An empowerment is extremely powerful purification and merit accumulation, and has many other benefits that are described in books. It is not just a matter of gaining permission to practice a specific practice.

Even getting the same empowerment from the same lama every day for years in a row would still be a very good thing. The only reason not to attend an empowerment is not being sure about the lama giving it. This of course is a very important point, and it is obviously not good to go to any empowerments around where you live just because they are taking place, if you are not sure about the lama who is giving them. But if great teachers are coming around where one lives all the time, it is a very good thing to attend everything.

This is my understanding at least.

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