Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
- Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
I wanted to start a thread about this important subject that keeps re-occurring in various threads.
Secret Mantra began in India with Mahasiddhas like Tilopa and was transmitted to Tibet by Marpa and Padmasambhava and others.
Tibet is a mountain-locked country, historically difficult to access, where Esoteric Teachings like Tantrayana/Vajrayana were as I read were often transmitted and practised in secret and remote locations at night in some cases.
Now with the advent of the Airplane, Globalism, Smartphones and Macs. Tantrayana is accessible in a way that hitherto hasn't been possible.
Also, we live in a Global Village where Privacy is a thing of the past, Data on all kinds of aspects is recorded and finally we are encouraged by Social Media to document every last facet of our lives for everyone to see.
The aspect of Secrecy is important so I wonder what are the most important things practitioners should keep in mind?
I'm not asking anyone to divulge anything that needs to be private it's more of a meta-discussion.
Secret Mantra began in India with Mahasiddhas like Tilopa and was transmitted to Tibet by Marpa and Padmasambhava and others.
Tibet is a mountain-locked country, historically difficult to access, where Esoteric Teachings like Tantrayana/Vajrayana were as I read were often transmitted and practised in secret and remote locations at night in some cases.
Now with the advent of the Airplane, Globalism, Smartphones and Macs. Tantrayana is accessible in a way that hitherto hasn't been possible.
Also, we live in a Global Village where Privacy is a thing of the past, Data on all kinds of aspects is recorded and finally we are encouraged by Social Media to document every last facet of our lives for everyone to see.
The aspect of Secrecy is important so I wonder what are the most important things practitioners should keep in mind?
I'm not asking anyone to divulge anything that needs to be private it's more of a meta-discussion.
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
"“During the degenerate age, the last five hundred years...it is an age when mantrikas are unable to keep secrets."Empty Desire wrote: ↑Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:37 pm I wanted to start a thread about this important subject that keeps re-occurring in various threads.
Secret Mantra began in India with Mahasiddhas like Tilopa and was transmitted to Tibet by Marpa and Padmasambhava and others.
Tibet is a mountain-locked country, historically difficult to access, where Esoteric Teachings like Tantrayana/Vajrayana were as I read were often transmitted and practised in secret and remote locations at night in some cases.
Now with the advent of the Airplane, Globalism, Smartphones and Macs. Tantrayana is accessible in a way that hitherto hasn't been possible.
Also, we live in a Global Village where Privacy is a thing of the past, Data on all kinds of aspects is recorded and finally we are encouraged by Social Media to document every last facet of our lives for everyone to see.
The aspect of Secrecy is important so I wonder what are the most important things practitioners should keep in mind?
I'm not asking anyone to divulge anything that needs to be private it's more of a meta-discussion.
--Rig pa rang shar.
So, crucially important.
- Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
Secret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.Tsongkhapafan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
- Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
I was on a retreat for the last 10 ten days and the lama stressed the importance of tantric secrecy at least one time a day, this really stresses the importance to me of not revealing your practices, their details, and your samaya.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
Where was the retreat? With what lama? What practices? Did you take pictures? What deity?Lobsang Chojor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:05 am I was on a retreat for the last 10 ten days and the lama..
- Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
It was with Dagri Rinpoche at Land of Joy, that's all I'll say as our instructionsFortyeightvows wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:09 amWhere was the retreat? With what lama? What practices? Did you take pictures? What deity?Lobsang Chojor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:05 am I was on a retreat for the last 10 ten days and the lama..
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
- Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
I was wondering the same using Evernote as convenient mobile data storage.
How sure can I be that what the algorithms derive out of the scanning of my data put there brings no harm neither any data leakage??
How sure can I be that what the algorithms derive out of the scanning of my data put there brings no harm neither any data leakage??
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
You can't be. Because if you're using a cloud service for something like this, you need to understand that this data is very vulnerable (leakage of such data has happened many times before on various services). Better to store on your own PC, offline.
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
It occurs to me that sometimes folk record sessions on their mobile phones and tablets. Now that we have 'assistants' listening to every sound, the chances are every second of what they record is stored by Google and others and is not restrcited to their own offline files at all. Mad world.Lobsang Chojor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:05 am I was on a retreat for the last 10 ten days and the lama stressed the importance of tantric secrecy at least one time a day, this really stresses the importance to me of not revealing your practices, their details, and your samaya.
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
Somehow I don't think that some pencil-necked-geek hacking into a three hour Dharma teaching on the nature of mind, is going to bring about the downfall of the Vajryana...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
No, but people volunteering the substance of vajrayāna practices, mantras, images of yidams, protectors, and so on certainly will.
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
I know this is a dumb question, but as a non-Vajrayana practitioner, I don't understand precisely the danger in revealing these things. Are your rituals and meditation techniques considered to be so powerful that they would damage the unprepared mind or something?
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
Yes, I am afraid it is a bit like that. Also it would destroy the transmission of these techniques.rgibson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:27 pm I know this is a dumb question, but as a non-Vajrayana practitioner, I don't understand precisely the danger in revealing these things. Are your rituals and meditation techniques considered to be so powerful that they would damage the unprepared mind or something?
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
I'm pretty sure they're going to get bored(particularly at the bodhicitta teaching) and wonder why on earth they are wasting their time on this.
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
Sure.
But I have enough problems keeping my samaya without running around and policing everybody else's...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
- Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
It’s called secret because there are no outward signs of the practice.Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:02 amSecret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.Tsongkhapafan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
only outward signs can reveal vajrayana practice. which means secret as Malcolm said.Tsongkhapafan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pmIt’s called secret because there are no outward signs of the practice.Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:02 amSecret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.Tsongkhapafan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
- mechashivaz
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
I might be misunderstanding here but aren't some Secret Mantrayana practitioners obvious by their garb? Or do you mean the specifics of practice are not reveled based on outward signs? Am I mistaken this as a superficial thing? As far as outward signs of practice, isn't the fruit observable to some? Especially when one analyses the lama, one should look for signs of bodhichitta and such which is an outward sign of practice.Tsongkhapafan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pmIt’s called secret because there are no outward signs of the practice.Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:02 amSecret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.Tsongkhapafan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra
It is called secret because the practices may not be disclosed to those who lack the ripening empowerments. This is why the seventh root downfall concerns not disclosing the secrets of the practice of Mantrayāna to those who are unripened.Tsongkhapafan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pmIt’s called secret because there are no outward signs of the practice.Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:02 amSecret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.Tsongkhapafan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.