Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

I wanted to start a thread about this important subject that keeps re-occurring in various threads.

Secret Mantra began in India with Mahasiddhas like Tilopa and was transmitted to Tibet by Marpa and Padmasambhava and others.

Tibet is a mountain-locked country, historically difficult to access, where Esoteric Teachings like Tantrayana/Vajrayana were as I read were often transmitted and practised in secret and remote locations at night in some cases.

Now with the advent of the Airplane, Globalism, Smartphones and Macs. Tantrayana is accessible in a way that hitherto hasn't been possible.

Also, we live in a Global Village where Privacy is a thing of the past, Data on all kinds of aspects is recorded and finally we are encouraged by Social Media to document every last facet of our lives for everyone to see.

The aspect of Secrecy is important so I wonder what are the most important things practitioners should keep in mind?

I'm not asking anyone to divulge anything that needs to be private it's more of a meta-discussion.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Malcolm »

Empty Desire wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:37 pm I wanted to start a thread about this important subject that keeps re-occurring in various threads.

Secret Mantra began in India with Mahasiddhas like Tilopa and was transmitted to Tibet by Marpa and Padmasambhava and others.

Tibet is a mountain-locked country, historically difficult to access, where Esoteric Teachings like Tantrayana/Vajrayana were as I read were often transmitted and practised in secret and remote locations at night in some cases.

Now with the advent of the Airplane, Globalism, Smartphones and Macs. Tantrayana is accessible in a way that hitherto hasn't been possible.

Also, we live in a Global Village where Privacy is a thing of the past, Data on all kinds of aspects is recorded and finally we are encouraged by Social Media to document every last facet of our lives for everyone to see.

The aspect of Secrecy is important so I wonder what are the most important things practitioners should keep in mind?

I'm not asking anyone to divulge anything that needs to be private it's more of a meta-discussion.
"“During the degenerate age, the last five hundred years...it is an age when mantrikas are unable to keep secrets."

--Rig pa rang shar.

So, crucially important.
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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Tsongkhapafan »

I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Malcolm »

Tsongkhapafan wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
Secret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Lobsang Chojor »

I was on a retreat for the last 10 ten days and the lama stressed the importance of tantric secrecy at least one time a day, this really stresses the importance to me of not revealing your practices, their details, and your samaya.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
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Fortyeightvows
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Fortyeightvows »

Lobsang Chojor wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:05 am I was on a retreat for the last 10 ten days and the lama..
Where was the retreat? With what lama? What practices? Did you take pictures? What deity?
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Lobsang Chojor »

Fortyeightvows wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:09 am
Lobsang Chojor wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:05 am I was on a retreat for the last 10 ten days and the lama..
Where was the retreat? With what lama? What practices? Did you take pictures? What deity?
It was with Dagri Rinpoche at Land of Joy, that's all I'll say as our instructions
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ
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weitsicht
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by weitsicht »

I was wondering the same using Evernote as convenient mobile data storage.
How sure can I be that what the algorithms derive out of the scanning of my data put there brings no harm neither any data leakage??
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Norwegian »

weitsicht wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:16 am I was wondering the same using Evernote as convenient mobile data storage.
How sure can I be that what the algorithms derive out of the scanning of my data put there brings no harm neither any data leakage??
You can't be. Because if you're using a cloud service for something like this, you need to understand that this data is very vulnerable (leakage of such data has happened many times before on various services). Better to store on your own PC, offline.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Mantrik »

Lobsang Chojor wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:05 am I was on a retreat for the last 10 ten days and the lama stressed the importance of tantric secrecy at least one time a day, this really stresses the importance to me of not revealing your practices, their details, and your samaya.
It occurs to me that sometimes folk record sessions on their mobile phones and tablets. Now that we have 'assistants' listening to every sound, the chances are every second of what they record is stored by Google and others and is not restrcited to their own offline files at all. Mad world.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Grigoris »

Somehow I don't think that some pencil-necked-geek hacking into a three hour Dharma teaching on the nature of mind, is going to bring about the downfall of the Vajryana... :roll:
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Malcolm »

Grigoris wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:59 pm Somehow I don't think that some pencil-necked-geek hacking into a three hour Dharma teaching on the nature of mind, is going to bring about the downfall of the Vajryana... :roll:
No, but people volunteering the substance of vajrayāna practices, mantras, images of yidams, protectors, and so on certainly will.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by rgibson »

I know this is a dumb question, but as a non-Vajrayana practitioner, I don't understand precisely the danger in revealing these things. Are your rituals and meditation techniques considered to be so powerful that they would damage the unprepared mind or something?
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by heart »

rgibson wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:27 pm I know this is a dumb question, but as a non-Vajrayana practitioner, I don't understand precisely the danger in revealing these things. Are your rituals and meditation techniques considered to be so powerful that they would damage the unprepared mind or something?
Yes, I am afraid it is a bit like that. Also it would destroy the transmission of these techniques.

/magnus
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Tenma »

Grigoris wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:59 pm Somehow I don't think that some pencil-necked-geek hacking into a three hour Dharma teaching on the nature of mind, is going to bring about the downfall of the Vajryana... :roll:
I'm pretty sure they're going to get bored(particularly at the bodhicitta teaching) and wonder why on earth they are wasting their time on this.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Grigoris »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:04 pm
Grigoris wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:59 pm Somehow I don't think that some pencil-necked-geek hacking into a three hour Dharma teaching on the nature of mind, is going to bring about the downfall of the Vajryana... :roll:
No, but people volunteering the substance of vajrayāna practices, mantras, images of yidams, protectors, and so on certainly will.
Sure.

But I have enough problems keeping my samaya without running around and policing everybody else's...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Tsongkhapafan »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:02 am
Tsongkhapafan wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
Secret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.
It’s called secret because there are no outward signs of the practice.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by jet.urgyen »

Tsongkhapafan wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:02 am
Tsongkhapafan wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
Secret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.
It’s called secret because there are no outward signs of the practice.
only outward signs can reveal vajrayana practice. which means secret as Malcolm said.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by mechashivaz »

Tsongkhapafan wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:02 am
Tsongkhapafan wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
Secret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.
It’s called secret because there are no outward signs of the practice.
I might be misunderstanding here but aren't some Secret Mantrayana practitioners obvious by their garb? Or do you mean the specifics of practice are not reveled based on outward signs? Am I mistaken this as a superficial thing? As far as outward signs of practice, isn't the fruit observable to some? Especially when one analyses the lama, one should look for signs of bodhichitta and such which is an outward sign of practice.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Malcolm »

Tsongkhapafan wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:02 am
Tsongkhapafan wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm I think it depends on context. If Secret Mantra is practised within the context of Sutra, for example within the context of Lamrim teachings, then secrecy is not necessary because the practice will be correctly intentioned and not misused. It must be presented within the context of a complete path to enlightenment. Traditionally within Tibetan Buddhism though, Secret Mantra is very secret.
Secret mantra is called secret because it is supposed to be kept secret, period.
It’s called secret because there are no outward signs of the practice.
It is called secret because the practices may not be disclosed to those who lack the ripening empowerments. This is why the seventh root downfall concerns not disclosing the secrets of the practice of Mantrayāna to those who are unripened.
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