Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

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Grigoris
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:37 pm

Virgo wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:04 pm
Solution: keep everything secret.
You can't, most of it is already public. Too late.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Tenma » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:56 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:37 pm
Virgo wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:04 pm
Solution: keep everything secret.
You can't, most of it is already public. Too late.
Not everything. A few termas are still secret from the public such as Lama Dawa's tradition.

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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Miroku » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:05 pm

Like yeah most of stuff is out there. But isn't the really main thing to keep secret our own practice? MEaning not showing our yidam, talking about it etc?
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
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You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Terma » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:14 pm

Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:54 pm
In my eyes, it is almost impossible to keep the details of Vajrayana secret without keeping the totality of Vajrayana secret. My reasoning: What makes Vajrayana what it is, is all of the secret stuff. Its the reason why if someone figures out IRL that I am a Buddhist, I never talk to them about empowerment, deities, mahamudra, etc. Why? Because I know that the details of those topics should be kept secret, and if I mention those things people will have questions. If people ask me those questions and I try to wiggle my way around those questions, or even bluntly state that its secret, that gets misinterpreted in and of itself. Yes, even the fact that Vajrayana has secrets is easy for others to misinterpret. "What are you hiding?" "Why cant you tell me? Is it something bad?" etc. etc. Because most people think Secrets = bad, or wierd, etc. And I think that is the way it is because most people only use secrets to hide bad or wierd things. So I have found that it is best in general for me, at least, to not even mention the word Vajrayana around those who dont know what it is.
I think this is a great way to go. Being a "hidden Yogi" is becoming a lost art I think.

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Empty Desire
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Empty Desire » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:22 pm

I made the point about information being recorded these days just to emphasise how the scenario for us practitioners has changed from say Tibet 200 years ago.

Serious breaks/damage to Samaya relates to the Four Binding Activities, which involve recklessness'

If we are talking about Secret Practice in a very Self-Cherishing way to someone who is unripe and not ready, just to boost our own self-image.

The only Root Downfall that doesn't involve the Four Binding Activities is giving up on Bodhicitta.

If we are using Cloud Services it is still private behind a UserLogin/Password, Email is the same. I think it is going too far to not use them, but it's up to the individual.

I think the intent is the most important thing. For example, we might share some information about Kriya Tantra just an outline maybe thinking the person will really benefit so coming from Bodhicitta. But we wouldn't talk about other higher practices which would harm both us and them. They might slander it and walk off for example.

So I think the intent is the most important thing behind keeping Samaya.

Also, the teachings are now readily available on YouTube/LiveStream etc....

When someone is ready they can find them if they are ready furthermore they can pursue the path if they choose, but it's a big decision for anyone to do.

I asked the question because I lack experience and wanted to learn, please correct me in any way.

I would add that Secret Mantra teaching are highly secretive in nature some more than others. So when talking with others, best to err on the side of caution or not say anything at all. Because speaking for myself it's not so easy to judge the ripeness or suitableness of someone. But then at the same time, I'm sure we would all like to provide a benefit to others.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

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Malcolm
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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:59 pm

Empty Desire wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:22 pm
But then at the same time, I'm sure we would all like to provide a benefit to others.
that is why we send folks to teachers we believe to be qualified to give these teachings, rather then parceling out the information to people ourselves.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:41 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:16 pm
When I say the internet is not a proper forum for disseminating this material, I mean it is not a proper place for students with samaya to share information with those who lack samaya.
When I first joined this forum there were all sorts of weird characters, I noticed they don't generally post publicly, PMing me with various offers for what were essentially quirky practices.

I made a very basic post inquiring about the 3 refuges, I remember, sometime in 2016.

I got PM'd a bizarre sequence of deities I should be prostrating to as well as the name of a guru who's body mind and speech could be my refuge. Unfortunately I deleted the email, but suffice to say one of the deities is a being we are not supposed to name on this forum.

I would say there is a bit of a problem, but I think its mostly targeting very new users to the forum. I've never since received something like that.
नस्वातो नापिपरतो नद्वाभ्यां नाप्यहेतुतः उत्पन्ना जातु विद्यन्ते भावाः क्वचन केचन
There absolutely are no things, nowhere and none, that arise anew, neither out of themselves, nor out of non-self, nor out of both, nor at random.
सर्वं तथ्यं न वा तथ्यं तथ्यं चातथ्यम् एव च नैवातथ्यं नैव तथ्यम् एतद् बुद्धानुशासनम्
All is so, or all is not so, both so and not so, neither so nor not so. This is the Buddha's teaching.

一切實非實亦實亦非實
非實非非實是名諸佛法

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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by haha » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:37 am

Keeping secret of own practice has many benefits. Now days, many teachers are making teaching available to those who are interested through various means. It all depends on teacher’s divination, suggestion of dharmapal or the deity, or their own wisdom.

Many people (especially non-buddhist) do not care what the Buddhists do on their practice.

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

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Re: Importance of Secrecy in Secret Mantra

Post by Grigoris » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:38 am

Mantrik wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:40 am
Organisations such as ChNN's Shang Shung Institute have images of Yidams etc. on the pages of their web stores. ChNN gives open webcasts showing images and giving mantras to anyone who tunes in, over which there is no control, as does Garchen Rinpoche. Others post videos on Facebook and Youtube etc.
Exactly. So if we want to be consistent (as Malcolm wishes) then...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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