Short sadhanas

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
ford_truckin
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:03 am

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by ford_truckin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:46 am

Miroku wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:23 pm
In short as previous discussion proved there are many short sadhanas. :) But as always teacher is important and then practice what the teacher tells you.

There are many termas which were made specially for modern world, however even many old practices can be done in a reasonable time.
Good advice. Thank you :namaste:

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:36 am

Even the wrathful mandala of the Guhyagarbha is really concise. There’s almost always a long and short version of any deity method. And also long and short mantras. Empowerments have long and short versions. Same with guru yoga. It’s very flexible really. The catch is if you want the genuine worldly siddhis you probably have to recite a lot of mantras. The quick version there is to pray with devotion to the Dharmapalas. YMMV.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

pemachophel
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by pemachophel » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:59 pm

Ford_truckin,

You're not going to find much information online about this sadhana. Some years ago, a notorious fake Tulku (an American), posted it on his web-page. I don't know if that's still there. Otherwise, it was kept pretty secret. It was never, ever taught publically. It was only given to my Teachers' personal students.

In any case, finding it online won't do you much good. It has to be received via person-to-person oral transmission. AFAIK, there are only two Lamas who have taught this sadhana to others (other than our Teachers): myself and Lama Thubten Dorje in SLC. And I've only given it to one person. However, Lama Thubten gives it to all his students, or at least he did several years ago.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:44 pm

Guhyagarbha rules. Also Vajravarahi. Any Must include easy completion, Activities and ganapuja. Start am end pm.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:55 pm

ford_truckin wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:45 am
pemachophel wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:53 pm
In 1969, H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche, Jigdral Yeshe Dorje, at the request of the tulku of Jetsun Shuksep, on the occasion of Her moving to the U.S., revealed a Mind Treasure "Dzogchen ngondro." In the colophon, His Holiness says this extremely short (quite a bit shorter than the short Dudjom Tersar ngondro) was revealed specifically for busy people in the modern world.
Interesting I tried googling this one but couldn't find much information on it.
Go for his lineage Drolod. It’s the beginning of Sadhana. You have to realize any deity you’re empowered in higher tantras have instantaneous arising and dissolution. And short open closing routines. You just need to connect w a teacher for empowerment and then it all slips into place. Long Sadhanas are for temple context and group practice.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Grigoris » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:27 pm

ford_truckin wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:45 am
pemachophel wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:53 pm
In 1969, H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche, Jigdral Yeshe Dorje, at the request of the tulku of Jetsun Shuksep, on the occasion of Her moving to the U.S., revealed a Mind Treasure "Dzogchen ngondro." In the colophon, His Holiness says this extremely short (quite a bit shorter than the short Dudjom Tersar ngondro) was revealed specifically for busy people in the modern world.
Interesting I tried googling this one but couldn't find much information on it.
I have received this one. The recitations are really short, but they still require accumulation, which means the practice time suddenly becomes much longer.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Nyedrag Yeshe
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:06 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:34 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:55 pm
ford_truckin wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:45 am
pemachophel wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:53 pm
In 1969, H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche, Jigdral Yeshe Dorje, at the request of the tulku of Jetsun Shuksep, on the occasion of Her moving to the U.S., revealed a Mind Treasure "Dzogchen ngondro." In the colophon, His Holiness says this extremely short (quite a bit shorter than the short Dudjom Tersar ngondro) was revealed specifically for busy people in the modern world.
Interesting I tried googling this one but couldn't find much information on it.
Go for his lineage Drolod. It’s the beginning of Sadhana. You have to realize any deity you’re empowered in higher tantras have instantaneous arising and dissolution. And short open closing routines. You just need to connect w a teacher for empowerment and then it all slips into place. Long Sadhanas are for temple context and group practice.
Aren't long sadhanas meant for retreat also? I also always learned that many lamas (the more orthodox though) recommend long sadhanas to beginners, in order to give them some stabilization of the practice, before going to the shorter ones.
“Whatever has to happen, let it happen!”
“Whatever the situation is, it’s fine!”
“I really don’t need anything!
~Tsangpa Gyare Yeshe Dorje (1161-1211)
ओं पद्मोष्णीष विमले हूँ फट । ओं हनुफशभरहृदय स्वाहा॥
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔ ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:28 pm

Nyedrag Yeshe wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:34 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:55 pm
ford_truckin wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:45 am

Interesting I tried googling this one but couldn't find much information on it.
Go for his lineage Drolod. It’s the beginning of Sadhana. You have to realize any deity you’re empowered in higher tantras have instantaneous arising and dissolution. And short open closing routines. You just need to connect w a teacher for empowerment and then it all slips into place. Long Sadhanas are for temple context and group practice.
Aren't long sadhanas meant for retreat also? I also always learned that many lamas (the more orthodox though) recommend long sadhanas to beginners, in order to give them some stabilization of the practice, before going to the shorter ones.
Retreat often have short so most of the work is on the main practice. Usually Drupchens get more lengthy
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Grigoris » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:46 pm

All Sadhana can be reduced to: Refuge prayer, Bodhicitta prayer, Four/Eight line praise to the Yidam, Mantra and then a Dedication prayer.

But even then, when one starts to accumulate the mantra...

So a short sadhana =/= short practice session, necessarily.

And it is actually pretty stupid to say: I am looking for a short sadhana to practice. What you should look for is a Yidam that strikes a chord. Then you should get the Wang, Lung and Tri for the practice and then dedicate yourself to it. Some days you will spend lots of time on the practice. Other days you will spend less time. But every day you will (should) practice.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:53 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:46 pm
All Sadhana can be reduced to: Refuge prayer, Bodhicitta prayer, Eight line praise to the Yidam, Mantra and then a Dedication prayer.

But even then, when one starts to accumulate the mantra...

So a short sadhana =/= short practice session, necessarily.

And it is actually pretty stupid to say: I am looking for a short sadhana to practice. What you should look for is a Yidam that strikes a chord. Then you should get the Wang, Lung and Tri for the practice and then dedicate yourself to it. Some days you will spend lots of time on the practice. Other days you will spend less time. But every day you will (should) practice.
In Kagyu maybe. Nyingma is a bit different
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

pemachophel
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by pemachophel » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:51 pm

Grigoris,

"I have received this one."

Really? Wow. From whom if I may ask?

Not doubting. Just surprised. So I'm wondering how you received it.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

Tenma
Posts: 654
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Tenma » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:55 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:27 pm
ford_truckin wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:45 am
pemachophel wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:53 pm
In 1969, H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche, Jigdral Yeshe Dorje, at the request of the tulku of Jetsun Shuksep, on the occasion of Her moving to the U.S., revealed a Mind Treasure "Dzogchen ngondro." In the colophon, His Holiness says this extremely short (quite a bit shorter than the short Dudjom Tersar ngondro) was revealed specifically for busy people in the modern world.
Interesting I tried googling this one but couldn't find much information on it.
I have received this one. The recitations are really short, but they still require accumulation, which means the practice time suddenly becomes much longer.
Aren't you supposed to keep your practices secret?

Tenma
Posts: 654
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Tenma » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:56 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:46 pm
All Sadhana can be reduced to: Refuge prayer, Bodhicitta prayer, Eight line praise to the Yidam, Mantra and then a Dedication prayer.

But even then, when one starts to accumulate the mantra...

So a short sadhana =/= short practice session, necessarily.

And it is actually pretty stupid to say: I am looking for a short sadhana to practice. What you should look for is a Yidam that strikes a chord. Then you should get the Wang, Lung and Tri for the practice and then dedicate yourself to it. Some days you will spend lots of time on the practice. Other days you will spend less time. But every day you will (should) practice.
Wait, so you can't recite a thousand or 10,000 mantras in one sadhana?

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4890
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by conebeckham » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:09 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:28 pm
Nyedrag Yeshe wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:34 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:55 pm

Go for his lineage Drolod. It’s the beginning of Sadhana. You have to realize any deity you’re empowered in higher tantras have instantaneous arising and dissolution. And short open closing routines. You just need to connect w a teacher for empowerment and then it all slips into place. Long Sadhanas are for temple context and group practice.
Aren't long sadhanas meant for retreat also? I also always learned that many lamas (the more orthodox though) recommend long sadhanas to beginners, in order to give them some stabilization of the practice, before going to the shorter ones.
Retreat often have short so most of the work is on the main practice. Usually Drupchens get more lengthy
There's no hard and fast rule, but in general, longer sadhanas with much elaboration apply to the main yidams of a given lineage, and are recommended for those who want to complete the practices related to that yidam in the most complete way. Shorter texts are intended for those who have completed the long approach and accomplishment stages and wish to maintain a daily recitation and meditation.

Longer sadhanas may have unique features associated with given deities--for example, some yidams may have a unique SungKhor (Protection Circle) which is integral to the practice. Some may have unique yogas of blessing inner offering, or making other offerings, etc. All of these elements are not usually found in short sadhanas, which condense the stages to the usual refuge/bodhicitta/Development Stage/Recitation stage/Completion Stage/Dedication.....though various other elements are often added, i/e., torma, or preliminary methods to gather merit via Seven Branch prayers, etc.

Longer sadhanas and ritual texts may have developed out of Tibetan monastic culture, but the original lineages were via Oral transmission, and many of these oral transmissions ended up being the basis or the written elements, or so the traditions hold.....

Another general observation is that many Nyingma practices, especially Terma related sadhanas, are going to be shorter. But I have seen these short practices expanded with additional addenda in some traditions, as well.

Longer sadhanas with elaboration and various auxiliary visualizations, etc. are quite skillful for those of us with insufficient samadhi to maintain pure vision and clear appearance during mantra recitation sections, as they give us the opportunity to maintain divine pride, etc., during a variety of activities, etc.

Speaking personally, I have found it beneficial to start with long, elaborate practices, and to rely on shorter versions after establishing familiarity. I occasionally go back to the longer sadhanas to refresh myself as well, when I have time.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:16 pm

And sometimes there are no long sadhanas
For a particular transmission
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Grigoris » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:39 pm

Tenma wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:55 pm
Aren't you supposed to keep your practices secret?
Your yidam practice. We are talking about ngondro. And I never said I am practicing it. ;) I have received scores of practices and empowerments. Even if I wanted to I couldn't practice all of them.
pemachophel wrote:Really? Wow. From whom if I may ask?

Not doubting. Just surprised. So I'm wondering how you received it.
From our teacher: Loppon Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Grigoris » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Tenma wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:56 pm
Wait, so you can't recite a thousand or 10,000 mantras in one sadhana?
Generally, when you take an empowerment the Vajra Master will ask you: "How many mantra a day do you pledge to do?"

The smart people in the room will say: "One."

After that it is up to you how many mantra you do each time. From one a day to...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

pemachophel
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by pemachophel » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:36 pm

Grigoris,
From our teacher: Loppon Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche.
Are you sure we are talking about the same sadhana? This would be surprising if we are. As far as I know, this ngondro is not included in Dudjom Rinpoche's sung-bum and was given specifically to Jetsun Pema Cho-dzin Sang-ngag Wang-mo.

I'm not talking about DUDJOM TERSAR NGONDRO’I NGAG-DON DU-PA ZHUG. I'm talking about THUN-MIN NGON-DRONGO-ZHII NAD-NGU ZHUG.

If you still think we're talking about the same ngon-dro, it'd be great if you could PM me the colophon.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

User avatar
Sennin
Posts: 665
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 am

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Sennin » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:53 am

conebeckham wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:09 pm


There's no hard and fast rule, but in general, longer sadhanas with much elaboration apply to the main yidams of a given lineage, and are recommended for those who want to complete the practices related to that yidam in the most complete way. Shorter texts are intended for those who have completed the long approach and accomplishment stages and wish to maintain a daily recitation and meditation.

Longer sadhanas may have unique features associated with given deities--for example, some yidams may have a unique SungKhor (Protection Circle) which is integral to the practice. Some may have unique yogas of blessing inner offering, or making other offerings, etc. All of these elements are not usually found in short sadhanas, which condense the stages to the usual refuge/bodhicitta/Development Stage/Recitation stage/Completion Stage/Dedication.....though various other elements are often added, i/e., torma, or preliminary methods to gather merit via Seven Branch prayers, etc.

Longer sadhanas and ritual texts may have developed out of Tibetan monastic culture, but the original lineages were via Oral transmission, and many of these oral transmissions ended up being the basis or the written elements, or so the traditions hold.....

Another general observation is that many Nyingma practices, especially Terma related sadhanas, are going to be shorter. But I have seen these short practices expanded with additional addenda in some traditions, as well.

Longer sadhanas with elaboration and various auxiliary visualizations, etc. are quite skillful for those of us with insufficient samadhi to maintain pure vision and clear appearance during mantra recitation sections, as they give us the opportunity to maintain divine pride, etc., during a variety of activities, etc.

Speaking personally, I have found it beneficial to start with long, elaborate practices, and to rely on shorter versions after establishing familiarity. I occasionally go back to the longer sadhanas to refresh myself as well, when I have time.
I appreciate the long sadhanas due to the details and methods the short sadhanas don't elaborate on.
Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.

User avatar
Virgo
Global Moderator
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: Short sadhanas

Post by Virgo » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:23 am

I like short ones with long words. I also like ones with Big words, the best words.

In all seriousness, I always prefer short.

Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: billy hudson, Bristollad, Empty Desire, Miroku and 77 guests