General Question Regarding Vajrayana Etiquette and Samaya

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CicadaCanto
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General Question Regarding Vajrayana Etiquette and Samaya

Post by CicadaCanto » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:12 pm

This is a general question.

Suppose one has a vajra relationship with a teacher (even a group of teachers) and a karmic connection to a cycle of teachings that one has committed to the practice of.

What that might look like is receiving empowerments, instructions and transmissions from a teacher or group of teachers and actively engaging in the practices. Doing the ngondro, accomplishing different practices by numbers or signs, doing certain types of training.

What about taking teachings from another teacher in that context?

My teacher wouldn't really care. As long as I practice purely and hold the lineage teachings.

But having considered this for some time, going and receiving these other teachings, it makes me wonder about my motivation. I have already been given a complete path. It comes down to, in pragmatic terms, whether I wish to receive these other teachings, or engage in retreat on my main practices. There is only so much time and money.

-CC

CicadaCanto
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:41 pm

Re: General Question Regarding Vajrayana Etiquette and Samaya

Post by CicadaCanto » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:02 pm

Was hoping for some help.

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Aryjna
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Re: General Question Regarding Vajrayana Etiquette and Samaya

Post by Aryjna » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:17 pm

Many people have the view that receiving many different teachings is not right and makes one shallow, showing a lack of real interest in the teachings. I am not really sure where this is coming from, if there is some scriptural support it would be useful to see it.

In my opinion that is false, and there are various quotes by masters that illustrate the opposite. Also, in biographies of masters you often read that they received many teachings from many different lamas.

I think the problem may be when someone is really just interested in getting the teachings with some nefarious purpose, such as to brag or to teach others without being ready, or to give out his services for money, doing pujas etc., while never actually putting them to practice genuinely.

Edit: In this specific case, if it is a choice between doing retreat on things you are already practicing and getting something new, I think I would choose the retreat, but it depends on the person making the choice obviously. Perhaps there is some very strong connection to the other teachings or something like that.
Last edited by Aryjna on Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Motova
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Re: General Question Regarding Vajrayana Etiquette and Samaya

Post by Motova » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:19 pm

As lay people our focus should be practice.
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.

CicadaCanto
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:41 pm

Re: General Question Regarding Vajrayana Etiquette and Samaya

Post by CicadaCanto » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:25 pm

Well. I am planning receiving these teachings. Great and rare teachings, great lama.

But I am doing a session of retreat at home. I'm reciting Calling Lama from Afar by Dudjom Rinpoche.

It strikes me that no text says the pre-requisite to realization, enlightenment is getting this set of teachings.

They all say total faith in one's guru.
They all say bodhicitta.
They all say following one's guru's pith instructions.

Sooooooooo... I have to ask myself-- what am I doing?

Getting teachings is certainly easier than retreat. Is it that? laziness?
Is it a lack of confidence in the instructions I've received?
Is it a lack of confidence in my lama?
More materialism. If only I get these teachings-- then I'm set. Then I can practice. How many times have I said that?

It is very easy to play games with oneself.

-CC


Aryjna wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:17 pm
Many people have the view that receiving many different teachings is not right and makes one shallow, showing a lack of real interest in the teachings. I am not really sure where this is coming from, if there is some scriptural support it would be useful to see it.

In my opinion that is false, and there are various quotes by masters that illustrate the opposite. Also, in biographies of masters you often read that they received many teachings from many different lamas.

I think the problem may be when someone is really just interested in getting the teachings with some nefarious purpose, such as to brag or to teach others without being ready, or to give out his services for money, doing pujas etc., while never actually putting them to practice genuinely.

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Aryjna
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: General Question Regarding Vajrayana Etiquette and Samaya

Post by Aryjna » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:29 pm

CicadaCanto wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:25 pm
Well. I am planning receiving these teachings. Great and rare teachings, great lama.

But I am doing a session of retreat at home. I'm reciting Calling Lama from Afar by Dudjom Rinpoche.

It strikes me that no text says the pre-requisite to realization, enlightenment is getting this set of teachings.

They all say total faith in one's guru.
They all say bodhicitta.
They all say following one's guru's pith instructions.

Sooooooooo... I have to ask myself-- what am I doing?

Getting teachings is certainly easier than retreat. Is it that? laziness?
Is it a lack of confidence in the instructions I've received?
Is it a lack of confidence in my lama?
More materialism. If only I get these teachings-- then I'm set. Then I can practice. How many times have I said that?

It is very easy to play games with oneself.

-CC


Aryjna wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:17 pm
Many people have the view that receiving many different teachings is not right and makes one shallow, showing a lack of real interest in the teachings. I am not really sure where this is coming from, if there is some scriptural support it would be useful to see it.

In my opinion that is false, and there are various quotes by masters that illustrate the opposite. Also, in biographies of masters you often read that they received many teachings from many different lamas.

I think the problem may be when someone is really just interested in getting the teachings with some nefarious purpose, such as to brag or to teach others without being ready, or to give out his services for money, doing pujas etc., while never actually putting them to practice genuinely.
I edited my post to add
Edit: In this specific case, if it is a choice between doing retreat on things you are already practicing and getting something new, I think I would choose the retreat, but it depends on the person making the choice obviously. Perhaps there is some very strong connection to the other teachings or something like that.
I think that it depends on the circumstances, if you have been doing this for some time now and you think it may be an excuse not to do retreat, then it may be a better idea to do the retreat.

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Malcolm
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Re: General Question Regarding Vajrayana Etiquette and Samaya

Post by Malcolm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:31 pm

CicadaCanto wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:12 pm
This is a general question.

Suppose one has a vajra relationship with a teacher (even a group of teachers) and a karmic connection to a cycle of teachings that one has committed to the practice of.

What that might look like is receiving empowerments, instructions and transmissions from a teacher or group of teachers and actively engaging in the practices. Doing the ngondro, accomplishing different practices by numbers or signs, doing certain types of training.

What about taking teachings from another teacher in that context?

My teacher wouldn't really care. As long as I practice purely and hold the lineage teachings.

But having considered this for some time, going and receiving these other teachings, it makes me wonder about my motivation. I have already been given a complete path. It comes down to, in pragmatic terms, whether I wish to receive these other teachings, or engage in retreat on my main practices. There is only so much time and money.

-CC

If you are interested in the teacher, then go. If it is only the teaching you are interested in, then do not go.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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