How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

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falcon
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How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by falcon » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:07 am

So,

I've been practicing Samatha meditation now for about a year in the Theravada sense, and I wish to develop Bodhicitta and walk the path within Tibetan Buddhism because it just speaks to me.

So... Theravada is pretty laid out on the process, steps, and techniques along the path while I can't seem to find equivalent instruction for Tibetan Buddhism.

I know that Hinayana is the base for Mahayana which is the base for Vajrayana and it all kind of connects, but...

I was hoping that someone could spell out what needs to be cultivated, practiced, aspired, meditated on, etc in a sequential like order. Or at least point me to some direction or literature that spells it out exactly as such. And seeking a teacher IMO is a cop out answer so if anyone can please provide some genuine guidance it would be very much appreciated.


1. Path of Acuumulation
1.a how this is accomplished in the Tibetan school of practice and techniques
2. Path of Joining/Preparation
2.a What techniques lead to the realization of emptiness
3. Path of Seein,
etc.
....

Where does Bodhicitta come in relation to these?
Vows?
6 Perfections?
4 immeasurables or foundations?
3 dharma jewels?
Preliminaries?
Refuge?
Other stuff I'm missing?

Is it possible to just to put these in a step by step list? It all circles each other and I can't find everything spelled out in one place, teaching, or instruction.

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Empty Desire
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Empty Desire » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:27 am

Do something about Self-Grasping.

You will need a teacher and you would start with Ngondro most probably.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

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Empty Desire
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Empty Desire » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:38 am

The very first thing though would be Refuge Vow with a Teacher, before you get underway.

If you practised Ngondro you would develop your mind in the correct way.

So Bodhicitta, the Four Thoughts and Self-Grasping along with others.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

PeterC
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by PeterC » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:41 am

What you're looking for is a lamrim text. There are multiple variants in different traditions, all are good. As a relatively accessible one, I would suggest Gampopa's Jewel Ornament of Liberation.

I would strongly advise against seeking this sort of systematic overview from an internet forum. Any short answer to the question isn't really worth knowing. If you want a proper answer, you should invest the time to read a book that explains it properly - you will not regret that investment of time, it will make subsequent teachings you receive a lot easier to place in context and understand.

falcon
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by falcon » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:47 am

PeterC wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:41 am
If you want a proper answer, you should invest the time to read a book that explains it properly - you will not regret that investment of time, it will make subsequent teachings you receive a lot easier to place in context and understand.
Thanks for the advice. Any 1 book that you know of can lay it out Barney style (Idiots guide) for me?

I've read "The Heart of meditation" by HH Dalai Lama.

I have recently ordered "For the benefit of all beings" by HH Dalai Lama and will most likely be able to start reading it this weekend.

I also have read "The wings to awakening" by Geoffrey DeGraff, although that was a long time ago.

fckw
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by fckw » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:02 am

I have been practicing Therevadin Vipassana for some years, but could never find any clear descriptions on the path beyond stream entry. Yes, there are four levels, but no clear description how to navigate from one to the next. If anyone finds such, I’d be very interested.

fckw
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by fckw » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:18 am

Tibetan Buddhism is much more varied in terms of models and approaches than Theravada. For example the progression models in Tantra are different from those in Mahamudra or Dzogchen. Generally alignment of such progression models is only partially possible. So, it takes a long time to get an overview that enables you to orient yourself among the vast variety of approaches and schools. Also the view matters a lot in the approach taken, something Therevadins typically struggle to understand in the beginning when diving into Tibetan Buddhist practices.

Starting with ngondro is not necessarily the best for someone who has lots of experience in Theravada. Problem however is that most Tibetan teachers will tell you to first do it and you end up months or years while you are already trained to a certain extent in mindfulness, concentration, compassion etc. or even have obtained a non-conceptual understanding of emptiness, that is stream entry. It is widely considered prerequisite to any higher teaching for the better or worse among monastic teachers in Tibet.

PeterC
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by PeterC » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:48 am

falcon wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:47 am
PeterC wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:41 am
If you want a proper answer, you should invest the time to read a book that explains it properly - you will not regret that investment of time, it will make subsequent teachings you receive a lot easier to place in context and understand.
Thanks for the advice. Any 1 book that you know of can lay it out Barney style (Idiots guide) for me?

I've read "The Heart of meditation" by HH Dalai Lama.

I have recently ordered "For the benefit of all beings" by HH Dalai Lama and will most likely be able to start reading it this weekend.

I also have read "The wings to awakening" by Geoffrey DeGraff, although that was a long time ago.
Perhaps try here? Dr Berzin is very good at plain language exposition.

https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-buddhism

Miroku
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Miroku » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:14 am

You have to find a teacher you trust and then follow his guidance. In vajrayana there are many ways. From going step by step with ngöndro, then yidam, then dzogchen/mahamudra etc. To going directly to dzogchen/mahamudra and applying practices to help with recognition of your buddha nature. What is important in vajrayana is compassion towards sentient beings and devotion towards your guru. But no worries both can be developed and if you find the right teacher (who carries the methods that will help you progress fast) both will appear really.

I must say that I quite honestly envy you (but still rejoice in :D) your developed shamatha practice. I think it is a very good groundwork for vajrayana.

So, read a bit. Search a lot. And find your teacher/s. Then follow his guidance (but not blindly) and enlightenment is assured really (be it sooner or later).
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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SonamTashi
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by SonamTashi » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:54 am

Reading may be a good way to start getting introduced to it all, but you really do need a teacher. That isn't a cop out at all -- it is just how it is done in Tibetan Buddhism, for a good reason. Books will only get you so far. I don't think it is possible to really start understanding it until you find a teacher and start practicing. Everything else is just an intellectual exercise. Other posters have given some good recommendations for reading, and I don't think I have anything to add to that. Give those a go and then start thinking about if you want to look for a teacher.
:bow: :buddha1: :bow: :anjali: :meditate:

florin
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by florin » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:29 pm

falcon wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:07 am
I was hoping that someone could spell out what needs to be cultivated, practiced, aspired, meditated on, etc in a sequential like order. Or at least point me to some direction or literature that spells it out exactly as such. And seeking a teacher IMO is a cop out answer so if anyone can please provide some genuine guidance it would be very much appreciated.
Maybe you can find some answers in the following books:

On the hinayana and mahayana https://www.shambhala.com/the-treasury- ... three.html
On tantra up to dzogchen https://www.shambhala.com/the-treasury- ... -four.html
Very informative on the views of the nine vehicles:
https://www.shambhala.com/the-small-gol ... -1374.html
https://www.namsebangdzo.com/A_Garland_ ... 572842.htm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nine-Gradual-V ... 2930447206

Sennin
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Sennin » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:40 pm

Receive instructions and guidance from a master, in a complete path; with an unbroken lineage.
ka dag lhun drup

Crazywisdom
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:57 pm

Read, Words of My Perfect Teacher

Or

Jewel Ornament of Liberation
On the corner of Knuck and Futz.

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weitsicht
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by weitsicht » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:13 pm

Books are the side dish.

The starter is the guru that fits. Youtube, for a, livestreams help but traveling and patience is also required.
The main dish is meditation and post-meditation. Looking looking, applying the learned, appreciating what you realize by yourself.
I'd say -having a sweet tooth- old songs and pithy poems do a delicious desert, besides some yogic practices that allow an understanding of energy and channels

If you focus on books only, you'll make an intellectual deal out of it but in terms of enlightenment, whatever that is, it won't bring you far.

Welcome to the forum and enjoy.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

Jeff H
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Jeff H » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:42 pm

falcon wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:07 am
I was hoping that someone could spell out what needs to be cultivated, practiced, aspired, meditated on, etc in a sequential like order. Or at least point me to some direction or literature that spells it out exactly as such.
There isn't a big FPMT (Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition) presence on DW, but I found Geshe Tashi Tsering's 2-year, Gelug-oriented online course to be a remarkably clear and well organized presentation of the foundational basis of Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism in the graduated method of lam rim.

Now that Geshe Tashi has recently left the Jamyang Centre in London, I can't find any definitive info online about whether they will continue to offer that course. I have contacted a friend of mine who was a facilitator of the course to see if she knows and I'll post her reply when I hear.

Meanwhile, Geshe Tashi had revised, refined, and published the six modular texts which form the core curriculum. They are available on Amazon. The six texts are numbered sequentially (1-Four Noble Truths; 2-Two Truths; 3-Buddhist Psychology; 4-Bodhichitta (Awakening Mind); 5-Emptiness; and 6-Tantra). In the course each module gets 4 months study, and I'd recommend studying them in that order and manner.

It's true that focusing on books tends toward over-intellectualization, but sometimes it is the best option for gaining a foothold. It is up to you to bring it into your heart and actualize what you learn through books (or teachers) in the world. The Gelug approach is well suited to people who need that kind of structural underpinning. But always keep alert for opportunities to join with a teacher because in the end, that is the only way.

- Jeff
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

falcon
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by falcon » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:22 pm

Thank you for all the responses, Im surprised it took me until now to look up lamrims. As far as a lamrim that best transitions into dzogchen practice - which lamrim(s) should I study?

Are they all for the most part the same when discussing the three scopes, and just different with views of emptiness?

I would prefer to study a lamrim written under the "ancient" lamas who did not criticize other Tibetan traditions in time of conflict between schools and cultural differences.

Please advise.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:29 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:42 pm
There isn't a big FPMT (Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition) presence on DW, but I found Geshe Tashi Tsering's 2-year, Gelug-oriented online course to be a remarkably clear and well organized presentation of the foundational basis of Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism in the graduated method of lam rim.

Now that Geshe Tashi has recently left the Jamyang Centre in London, I can't find any definitive info online about whether they will continue to offer that course. I have contacted a friend of mine who was a facilitator of the course to see if she knows and I'll post her reply when I hear.

Meanwhile, Geshe Tashi had revised, refined, and published the six modular texts which form the core curriculum. They are available on Amazon. The six texts are numbered sequentially (1-Four Noble Truths; 2-Two Truths; 3-Buddhist Psychology; 4-Bodhichitta (Awakening Mind); 5-Emptiness; and 6-Tantra). In the course each module gets 4 months study, and I'd recommend studying them in that order and manner.
Geshe Tashi's course is really useful, I've only ever read the books and asked him questions though.

It is currently being led by some of the more experienced students at Jamyang afaik, Geshe Tashi has indicated that within a few months he will be able to email students but I'm not sure about the lam rim or fbt courses.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

falcon
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by falcon » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:20 pm

Sennin wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:40 pm
Receive instructions and guidance from a master, in a complete path; with an unbroken lineage.
Hello,

How would I go about finding an unbroken lineage?

Jeff H
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Jeff H » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:29 pm

falcon wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:22 pm
Thank you for all the responses, Im surprised it took me until now to look up lamrims. As far as a lamrim that best transitions into dzogchen practice - which lamrim(s) should I study?

Are they all for the most part the same when discussing the three scopes, and just different with views of emptiness?

I would prefer to study a lamrim written under the "ancient" lamas who did not criticize other Tibetan traditions in time of conflict between schools and cultural differences.

Please advise.
You are asking advice on a public forum with widely divergent views about what Buddhism is and how to apply it. Don't look for definitive direction here. We're giving you clues; you have to take your best guess as to how to commit your efforts. Your karmic situation and inclinations are your only reliable guide. Stay alert and pay attention, step by step. Some on DW don't care for Tsongkhapa, but his lam rim has spawned a very fruitful tradition and that's what Geshe Tashi teaches. You have to make your own choice, though.

To quote the fictional but inspirational non-buddhist, Don Juan Matus: "A man goes to knowledge as he goes to war, wide-awake, with fear, with respect, and with absolute assurance."
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

Sennin
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Re: How to become enlightened via Tibetan Buddhism?

Post by Sennin » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:41 pm

falcon wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:22 pm
Thank you for all the responses, Im surprised it took me until now to look up lamrims. As far as a lamrim that best transitions into dzogchen practice - which lamrim(s) should I study?

Are they all for the most part the same when discussing the three scopes, and just different with views of emptiness?

I would prefer to study a lamrim written under the "ancient" lamas who did not criticize other Tibetan traditions in time of conflict between schools and cultural differences.

Please advise.
I would suggest Jigme Lingpas Steps to the Great Perfection if Ati Yoga is your focus.
ka dag lhun drup

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