Charnel grounds

[kalden yungdrung]

Tashi delek,

We know in Tibetan / Indian Tantrayana also many Yogis who dwelled in charnel grounds.
This method was undertaken mainly for controlling / subdue fear.
The food was there mostly human flesh, the left overs of the cremation.

Below non Tibetan Yogis, but some Indian yogis , the Aghori Sadhus, who still dwell on charnel grounds, to overcome fear.
They have / share some similarities with the Tibetan Yogis, their conviction /belief differs.
Charnel grounds are visited by all kind of spirits etc.

[Aryjna]

They did that in Indian Vajrayana too. I haven't heard before that they ate dead bodies though.

[passel]

Nowadays, they just mix a little red Gatorade into yogurt, then either put some sugar water in a bowl, or have a half a glass of Merlot and some antipasti, and everyone is on their phones half the time.

[kalden yungdrung]

Nowadays, they just mix a little red Gatorade into yogurt, then either put some sugar water in a bowl, or have a half a glass of Merlot and some antipasti, and everyone is on their phones half the time.

Agree , saw that also one time, these Sadhus are "emancipated", everything changes, nothing stays for ever the same.
Maybe they will take one time a "Big Mac Whooper," who knows.

[passel]

I am glad for spiritual diversity. Everybody needs a little different medicine. Hard to tell medicine from poison too half the time.

[MatthewAngby]

Tashi delek,

We know in Tibetan / Indian Tantrayana also many Yogis who dwelled in charnel grounds.
This method was undertaken mainly for controlling / subdue fear.
The food was there mostly human flesh, the left overs of the cremation.

Below non Tibetan Yogis, but some Indian yogis , the Aghori Sadhus, who still dwell on charnel grounds, to overcome fear.
They have / share some similarities with the Tibetan Yogis, their conviction /belief differs.
Charnel grounds are visited by all kind of spirits etc.

Doesn’t their practice somehow is a bit similar with Tibetan yogis? ( eg. everything is inherently pure, natural state - no fear or disgust ) ... I sometimes wonder if they can be liberated like this?

[Grigoris]

Doesn’t their practice somehow is a bit similar with Tibetan yogis? ( eg. everything is inherently pure, natural state - no fear or disgust ) ... I sometimes wonder if they can be liberated like this?

Unfortunately, for them, they have an eternalist view, so...

[kalden yungdrung]

Tashi delek,

We know in Tibetan / Indian Tantrayana also many Yogis who dwelled in charnel grounds.
This method was undertaken mainly for controlling / subdue fear.
The food was there mostly human flesh, the left overs of the cremation.

Below non Tibetan Yogis, but some Indian yogis , the Aghori Sadhus, who still dwell on charnel grounds, to overcome fear.
They have / share some similarities with the Tibetan Yogis, their conviction /belief differs.
Charnel grounds are visited by all kind of spirits etc.

Doesn’t their practice somehow is a bit similar with Tibetan yogis? ( eg. everything is inherently pure, natural state - no fear or disgust ) ... I sometimes wonder if they can be liberated like this?

That which they can share is the practice of subduing / control fear, regarding the sleeping in charnel grounds.
Tilopa met Krishnacharya at the charnel grounds one time.
So this Indian Mahasiddhas who is the Father of Kagyu knew very well the Indian charnel grounds and their Saddhus.
The methods of living in charnel grounds was copied, not the philosophy of the Sadhus.

[amanitamusc]

Doesn’t their practice somehow is a bit similar with Tibetan yogis? ( eg. everything is inherently pure, natural state - no fear or disgust ) ... I sometimes wonder if they can be liberated like this?

Unfortunately, for them, they have an eternalist view, so...

Now you have done it Greg.Here comes the angry perennialist posts.Run for your eternal life.

[cyril]

Doesn’t their practice somehow is a bit similar with Tibetan yogis? ( eg. everything is inherently pure, natural state - no fear or disgust ) ... I sometimes wonder if they can be liberated like this?

I think at least some of them might have attained some realization akin to that of an accomplished chodpa. Otherwise, it is hard to explain how they manage to survive in such environments. There are aghori sadhus living in the cremation grounds of Varanasi. You've probably seen images with the Ganges waters at Varanasi; full of rotting corpses, excrement and garbage. Still, they drink and bath in that water and yet they stay pretty healthy. As an ordinary person, I don't think you would last very long doing that; in a matter of days, you would probably get hepatitis or cholera or amoebiasis and that would be it.

[Grigoris]

Doesn’t their practice somehow is a bit similar with Tibetan yogis? ( eg. everything is inherently pure, natural state - no fear or disgust ) ... I sometimes wonder if they can be liberated like this?

I think at least some of them might have attained some realization akin to that of an accomplished chodpa. Otherwise, it is hard to explain how they manage to survive in such environments. There are aghori sadhus living in the cremation grounds of Varanasi. You've probably seen images with the Ganges waters at Varanasi; full of rotting corpses, excrement and garbage. Still, they drink and bath in that water and yet they stay pretty healthy. As an ordinary person, I don't think you would last very long doing that; in a matter of days, you would probably get hepatitis or cholera or amoebiasis and that would be it.

Siddhi can be worldly too.

There is no doubt they would have attainment of siddhi, the question is about liberation.

Without right view...

[kalden yungdrung]

Doesn’t their practice somehow is a bit similar with Tibetan yogis? ( eg. everything is inherently pure, natural state - no fear or disgust ) ... I sometimes wonder if they can be liberated like this?

I think at least some of them might have attained some realization akin to that of an accomplished chodpa. Otherwise, it is hard to explain how they manage to survive in such environments. There are aghori sadhus living in the cremation grounds of Varanasi. You've probably seen images with the Ganges waters at Varanasi; full of rotting corpses, excrement and garbage. Still, they drink and bath in that water and yet they stay pretty healthy. As an ordinary person, I don't think you would last very long doing that; in a matter of days, you would probably get hepatitis or cholera or amoebiasis and that would be it.

Tashi delek,

To overcome the fear or using the fear as a method that is what these Aghori Sadhus and Chöpas have in common.
Fear for the Bardo of dying that is also well known in the Tibetan Traditions.

The Chöpas make use of the charnel grounds based on the Indian customs. It is not strange that the Chöpas also make use of shamanic customs like the Damaru . So the Chöpas have a mixed up culture based on the Wisdom Sutra or on Tantra mixed with shamanic customs.

But to overcome the fear or cutting this fear that is the common practise which all these charnel ground dwellers share.
To what this practise as fruit will lead for all of these charnel ground dwellers, that is sooner or later liberation, no doubt about it.

[Natan]

There are scary places. I hear cemeteries in England can be haunted.

[kalden yungdrung]

There are scary places. I hear cemeteries in England can be haunted.

Agree, there are many scary places in the world.
A good place for meditation and practice.
To overcome fear like in the Bardo and dreams as well at scary places is a very good practice, it causes a powerful mind.

In the Bardo is this fear the cause for running away from the state of Enlightenment, and mostly was already experienced during live like in the dreams (nightmares).

All in all there are some methods to overcome fear and that must not per se dwelling in charnel grounds, cemeteries or hammer houses of horrors.

The good thing of a Chöpa is that he/she can perform acts of Compassion, but that is with Chü tor ritual also possible.
There the body is also offered to the guests.

[Natan]

Being alone the the dark forest is scary, too.

[fckw]

Most importantly they look so chique with that skull over the rastas!

But of course such dreadful practices as hanging around the charnel grounds, sitting on corpses could never possibly have existed in Vajrayana Buddhism. For example, Chöd was certainly meant right from the start to be practiced mainly by vegetarian, post-Christian Westerners in the safety of their retreat center having a golden buddha statue standing around somewhere.

[Natan]

Most importantly they look so chique with that skull over the rastas!

But of course such dreadful practices as hanging around the charnel grounds, sitting on corpses could never possibly have existed in Vajrayana Buddhism.

I guess you haven’t read Kalachakra. This is how mundane siddhis are attained.

[passel]

I think he or she was being sarcastic

[Könchok Thrinley]

Being alone the the dark forest is scary, too.

In Czechia we have these old lost villages where at the end of the WW2 Germas have lived, but were either killed or forced to go to Germany when we were liberated. Soo I bet that those places with hundreds of years of history and such sad ending could be great for Chöd. I hope to learn Chöd properly one day and maybe try a small "pilgrimage" and stopping for the night at those places.

[Natan]

Being alone the the dark forest is scary, too.

In Czechia we have these old lost villages where at the end of the WW2 Germas have lived, but were either killed or forced to go to Germany when we were liberated. Soo I bet that those places with hundreds of years of history and such sad ending could be great for Chöd. I hope to learn Chöd properly one day and maybe try a small "pilgrimage" and stopping for the night at those places.

That’s a good idea.