Good one.
Im sure there are more Shambhala "acaryas" on the way as well.
Good one.
There has always been room for Mahāyāna teachers to engage in conduct that seems to not conform to lower Buddhist ethics. Of course, some people use this laxity as an excuse to indulge their afflictions. This is not the intention of the situational ethics of Mahāyāna.Queequeg wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:42 am What is sad about all this to me is that these people must have really wanted to connect with Dharma to put up with this crap.
Their sincere efforts are not lost, I hope. The prognosis for the charlatans is dire. In the least they should be pariahe for the rest of their lives. The good old Brahma Penalty - ostracism.
What, specifically, would make one think these individuals were not awakened? Specifically. In detail.
The subject matter is heartbreakingly, distastefully atrocious. As a slight deviation from the subject here, are sociopaths and psychopaths incapable of being awakened or of being effective teachers, sans atrocious transgressions and violations of trust? Here's a relevant book:
"Crazy wisdom" is exclusive to Tibetan Buddhism. It was a term coined by Trungpa. It is pretty modern.gb9810 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:51 am I don't remember hearing anyone claiming Harvey Weinstein was displaying crazy wisdom.. his victims may have been silenced/stayed silent for various reasons but I doubt any of them felt his exploitation was a display of kindness for their benefit. That to me differentiates cult vs. not. (Of course cultish behavior is not mutually exclusive with the presence of abuse of power of various forms..)
They have putrid ravioli in Copenhagen? Why?
The Church of England? The Presbyterians?
You forgot about Patriarchy. That had a role to play as well.
Many Hindu sects are into the idea too.
I take sociopathy/psychopathy as a descriptive psychological category. I do not really believe in the neurological explanations, and find the present medical etiology of the phenomenon specious.The Cicada wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:48 amThe subject matter is heartbreakingly, distastefully atrocious. As a slight deviation from the subject here, are sociopaths and psychopaths incapable of being awakened or of being effective teachers, sans atrocious transgressions and violations of trust? Here's a relevant book:
https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Psychopat ... 0374533989
Malicious abuse of power and an inborn lack of empathy are distinct, even if they tend to ride together. I mean, don't blame this on sociopathy. Plenty of police officers are benign sociopaths.
We're talking about Triratna here?
Triratna - although very much not to my taste - has had a good long look at itself and has matured because of the various scandals around the leader and the Croydon center. I don't think I'd dissuade people from checking it out for those reasons. It's mixture of arty romanticism and Dharma salad is another thing.
I wish everyone well while keeping my distance from 99% of them.treehuggingoctopus wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:19 amI take sociopathy/psychopathy as a descriptive psychological category. I do not really believe in the neurological explanations, and find the present medical etiology of the phenomenon specious.The Cicada wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:48 amThe subject matter is heartbreakingly, distastefully atrocious. As a slight deviation from the subject here, are sociopaths and psychopaths incapable of being awakened or of being effective teachers, sans atrocious transgressions and violations of trust? Here's a relevant book:
https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Psychopat ... 0374533989
Malicious abuse of power and an inborn lack of empathy are distinct, even if they tend to ride together. I mean, don't blame this on sociopathy. Plenty of police officers are benign sociopaths.
Are sociopaths/psychopaths incapable of being awakened or effective teachers? Of course they are, so long as they are psychopaths/sociopaths. The instant you wake up is the instant you cease to be a sociopath/psychopath. How could it be otherwise?
A "benign sociopath" is a contradiction in terms in my book.
is this the FWBO that was? I remember the refugees flooding into other dharma centres from there in the late 90's.Knotty Veneer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:25 amTriratna - although very much not to my taste - has had a good long look at itself and has matured because of the various scandals around the leader and the Croydon center. I don't think I'd dissuade people from checking it out for those reasons. It's mixture of arty romanticism and Dharma salad is another thing.
The sinister connotations of the word 'cult' are quite modern too, as it used to mean simply a religious movement centred around a person or thing (fetish - another word which has shifted meaning ). Soldiers are subject to boot camp bashing to make sure as you say they are malleable and will follow orders - a form of conditioning and breaking of the subject's will.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:39 am"Crazy wisdom" is exclusive to Tibetan Buddhism. It was a term coined by Trungpa. It is pretty modern.gb9810 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:51 am I don't remember hearing anyone claiming Harvey Weinstein was displaying crazy wisdom.. his victims may have been silenced/stayed silent for various reasons but I doubt any of them felt his exploitation was a display of kindness for their benefit. That to me differentiates cult vs. not. (Of course cultish behavior is not mutually exclusive with the presence of abuse of power of various forms..)
The idea that one must tolerate unusual behavior from one's guru is well established. What is not so well established is that converts tend to bring a certain fanaticism with them into the new faith to which they have converted. Is this idealism exploited? Yes, but this is little different than new recruits in an army who suffer all kinds of abuse at the hands of the powers that be to turn them into malleable foot soldiers. So, I still argue that power and its abuse is the real issue here, and claims of "Cultishness" are a distracting red herring.
It is not surprising at all that Trungpa created an army, the Vajra Guard, and that it remains the chief expression of Shambhala International's will to power. Attempts to create enlightened societies always end in tears.
The term may be modern, but the phenomenon is not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_madnessMalcolm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:39 am"Crazy wisdom" is exclusive to Tibetan Buddhism. It was a term coined by Trungpa. It is pretty modern.gb9810 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:51 am I don't remember hearing anyone claiming Harvey Weinstein was displaying crazy wisdom.. his victims may have been silenced/stayed silent for various reasons but I doubt any of them felt his exploitation was a display of kindness for their benefit. That to me differentiates cult vs. not. (Of course cultish behavior is not mutually exclusive with the presence of abuse of power of various forms..)