Common Language between Teacher and Student

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mandog
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Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by mandog » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:50 pm

This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?

mandog
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by mandog » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:06 pm

mandog wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:50 pm
This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama in order to properly practice their teachings?

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heart
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by heart » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:29 pm

mandog wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:50 pm
This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?
that is certainly a good idea, but not always possible.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

mandog
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by mandog » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:49 pm

heart wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:29 pm
mandog wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:50 pm
This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?
that is certainly a good idea, but not always possible.

/magnus
And how do you think things work out in the scenario where it is not possible?

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heart
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by heart » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:15 pm

mandog wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:49 pm
heart wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:29 pm
mandog wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:50 pm
This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?
that is certainly a good idea, but not always possible.

/magnus
And how do you think things work out in the scenario where it is not possible?
Well, you need a translator, right?

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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passel
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by passel » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:27 pm

There’s a story that Atisha met an Indian sheep herder in the back country of Tibet. It turned out that he had been a pandita who came to teach dharma. But he never learned the language so he lived out his days in obscurity and isolation, and he never accomplished his aspiration.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:17 am

mandog wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:50 pm
This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?

i would say yes, unless you integrated the siddhi of intelligence in your nature. :reading:
what are you doing

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kirtu
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by kirtu » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:34 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:17 am
mandog wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:50 pm
This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?

i would say yes, unless you integrated the siddhi of intelligence in your nature. :reading:
Well Erik Pema Kunzang at first started translating from Tibetan -> English because he knew the most Tibetan at ~20% (according to him).

I've know people who had boy/girlfriends who didn't speak each other's languages (although this is quite different). People can adapt and teachers can teach to some extent without command of a mutual language.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:08 am

kirtu wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:34 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:17 am
mandog wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:50 pm
This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?

i would say yes, unless you integrated the siddhi of intelligence in your nature. :reading:
Well Erik Pema Kunzang at first started translating from Tibetan -> English because he knew the most Tibetan at ~20% (according to him).

I've know people who had boy/girlfriends who didn't speak each other's languages (although this is quite different). People can adapt and teachers can teach to some extent without command of a mutual language.

Kirt
yeah, lovers can understand each other... in the first 3 months haha

one can fall in love with the dharma of a teacher also, and while in the distance: books, videos, webcast, whatever needed (language in between)
what are you doing

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bokki
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by bokki » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:55 pm

Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?

im sry, maybe i am out of line here
since ill be talking bout a Roshi, not a Lama

his north jap lingo was so strange, even tokyo pps could not understand
even worse, his teisho would b a 5 min about the koan
and next 2 hours about politics, regan, yeltsin, and what not
best and easiest meditations i had there, zooming out into shikantaza, no 1 2 bother 1

i had the head monk translate when we were in dokusan
but
what he gave me directly
is still a wonder to me
hmm
cant explain it
its another lingo 4 sure

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 am

I have almost always communicated with my teachers via a translator.
.
.
.
Profile Picture: "The Fo Ming (Buddha Bright) Monk"
People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.

mandog
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by mandog » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:25 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 am
I have almost always communicated with my teachers via a translator.
.
.
.
Did you find that this created any doubt that hindered your practice?

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passel
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by passel » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:58 am

bokki wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:55 pm
Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?

im sry, maybe i am out of line here
since ill be talking bout a Roshi, not a Lama

his north jap lingo was so strange, even tokyo pps could not understand
even worse, his teisho would b a 5 min about the koan
and next 2 hours about politics, regan, yeltsin, and what not
best and easiest meditations i had there, zooming out into shikantaza, no 1 2 bother 1

i had the head monk translate when we were in dokusan
but
what he gave me directly
is still a wonder to me
hmm
cant explain it
its another lingo 4 sure
My main teacher was a now-deceased Jpns Roshi who never bothered to give teishos in English (to 90% anglophone audiences tho funnily enough half the time his translators’ English was pretty rough too. But he was a great teacher, so you’d just take what you could get. In sanzen he mostly spoke simple English, or didn’t speak.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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passel
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by passel » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:00 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 am
I have almost always communicated with my teachers via a translator.
.
.
.
I did that one time- hated it! It’s why I can’t be Shodo Harad’s student
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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heart
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by heart » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:08 am

mandog wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:25 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 am
I have almost always communicated with my teachers via a translator.
.
.
.
Did you find that this created any doubt that hindered your practice?
You have to find a translator that is honest and skilful, some translators edit both questions and answers.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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bokki
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student

Post by bokki » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:12 pm

passel
In sanzen he mostly spoke simple English, or didn’t speak.
exactly so. the nature of sanzen, dokusan is not based on words, and a precious few were exchanged.
ill go against the grain here, no talk bout dokusan..
once i said
" i dont know to make rice cakes, but i can make pancakes"
the monk looked at me and said
"no, no, no"
with my head i asked him to translate to the roshi
and the roshi asked him
"what?"
when he heard about the pancakes, he laughed aloud an said
"hai, hai, ok, ok"
once, and that was rare indeed
he told me
"do you know that in china, now, there are people who,
for nearly 2000 years,
have not gonne down the mountain,
they are still meditating?"
yes, so im really happy for having the monk translate,
although the gist would be transmitted without him, too,
and many a time i was there alone.
i also remember, a few times,
when my answer was kind of good, but "weak"
he would say
"no, no, this is how its done"....
those memories give me goose pimples
and, so, imo, it is about the common lingo btween teacher and student,
but its a strange lingo indeed
imo

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