Common Language between Teacher and Student
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Common Language between Teacher and Student
This topic has been discussed in a brief way in connection with other topics, but I wanted to ask the following question explicitly: Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
that is certainly a good idea, but not always possible.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
Well, you need a translator, right?
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
There’s a story that Atisha met an Indian sheep herder in the back country of Tibet. It turned out that he had been a pandita who came to teach dharma. But he never learned the language so he lived out his days in obscurity and isolation, and he never accomplished his aspiration.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
i would say yes, unless you integrated the siddhi of intelligence in your nature.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
Well Erik Pema Kunzang at first started translating from Tibetan -> English because he knew the most Tibetan at ~20% (according to him).javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:17 am
i would say yes, unless you integrated the siddhi of intelligence in your nature.
I've know people who had boy/girlfriends who didn't speak each other's languages (although this is quite different). People can adapt and teachers can teach to some extent without command of a mutual language.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
yeah, lovers can understand each other... in the first 3 months hahakirtu wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:34 amWell Erik Pema Kunzang at first started translating from Tibetan -> English because he knew the most Tibetan at ~20% (according to him).javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:17 am
i would say yes, unless you integrated the siddhi of intelligence in your nature.
I've know people who had boy/girlfriends who didn't speak each other's languages (although this is quite different). People can adapt and teachers can teach to some extent without command of a mutual language.
Kirt
one can fall in love with the dharma of a teacher also, and while in the distance: books, videos, webcast, whatever needed (language in between)
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?
im sry, maybe i am out of line here
since ill be talking bout a Roshi, not a Lama
his north jap lingo was so strange, even tokyo pps could not understand
even worse, his teisho would b a 5 min about the koan
and next 2 hours about politics, regan, yeltsin, and what not
best and easiest meditations i had there, zooming out into shikantaza, no 1 2 bother 1
i had the head monk translate when we were in dokusan
but
what he gave me directly
is still a wonder to me
hmm
cant explain it
its another lingo 4 sure
im sry, maybe i am out of line here
since ill be talking bout a Roshi, not a Lama
his north jap lingo was so strange, even tokyo pps could not understand
even worse, his teisho would b a 5 min about the koan
and next 2 hours about politics, regan, yeltsin, and what not
best and easiest meditations i had there, zooming out into shikantaza, no 1 2 bother 1
i had the head monk translate when we were in dokusan
but
what he gave me directly
is still a wonder to me
hmm
cant explain it
its another lingo 4 sure
- PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
I have almost always communicated with my teachers via a translator.
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EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
Did you find that this created any doubt that hindered your practice?PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 am I have almost always communicated with my teachers via a translator.
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Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
My main teacher was a now-deceased Jpns Roshi who never bothered to give teishos in English (to 90% anglophone audiences tho funnily enough half the time his translators’ English was pretty rough too. But he was a great teacher, so you’d just take what you could get. In sanzen he mostly spoke simple English, or didn’t speak.bokki wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:55 pm Does one need to share at least one common language with their lama?
im sry, maybe i am out of line here
since ill be talking bout a Roshi, not a Lama
his north jap lingo was so strange, even tokyo pps could not understand
even worse, his teisho would b a 5 min about the koan
and next 2 hours about politics, regan, yeltsin, and what not
best and easiest meditations i had there, zooming out into shikantaza, no 1 2 bother 1
i had the head monk translate when we were in dokusan
but
what he gave me directly
is still a wonder to me
hmm
cant explain it
its another lingo 4 sure
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
I did that one time- hated it! It’s why I can’t be Shodo Harad’s studentPadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 am I have almost always communicated with my teachers via a translator.
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.
.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
You have to find a translator that is honest and skilful, some translators edit both questions and answers.mandog wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:25 amDid you find that this created any doubt that hindered your practice?PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 am I have almost always communicated with my teachers via a translator.
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.
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/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Common Language between Teacher and Student
passel
ill go against the grain here, no talk bout dokusan..
once i said
" i dont know to make rice cakes, but i can make pancakes"
the monk looked at me and said
"no, no, no"
with my head i asked him to translate to the roshi
and the roshi asked him
"what?"
when he heard about the pancakes, he laughed aloud an said
"hai, hai, ok, ok"
once, and that was rare indeed
he told me
"do you know that in china, now, there are people who,
for nearly 2000 years,
have not gonne down the mountain,
they are still meditating?"
yes, so im really happy for having the monk translate,
although the gist would be transmitted without him, too,
and many a time i was there alone.
i also remember, a few times,
when my answer was kind of good, but "weak"
he would say
"no, no, this is how its done"....
those memories give me goose pimples
and, so, imo, it is about the common lingo btween teacher and student,
but its a strange lingo indeed
imo
exactly so. the nature of sanzen, dokusan is not based on words, and a precious few were exchanged.In sanzen he mostly spoke simple English, or didn’t speak.
ill go against the grain here, no talk bout dokusan..
once i said
" i dont know to make rice cakes, but i can make pancakes"
the monk looked at me and said
"no, no, no"
with my head i asked him to translate to the roshi
and the roshi asked him
"what?"
when he heard about the pancakes, he laughed aloud an said
"hai, hai, ok, ok"
once, and that was rare indeed
he told me
"do you know that in china, now, there are people who,
for nearly 2000 years,
have not gonne down the mountain,
they are still meditating?"
yes, so im really happy for having the monk translate,
although the gist would be transmitted without him, too,
and many a time i was there alone.
i also remember, a few times,
when my answer was kind of good, but "weak"
he would say
"no, no, this is how its done"....
those memories give me goose pimples
and, so, imo, it is about the common lingo btween teacher and student,
but its a strange lingo indeed
imo