Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

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WeiHan
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by WeiHan » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:05 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:02 pm

Ripened karma cannot be stopped. Even if Mao had hypothetically been murdered, why would this make a significant difference? There are many others to take his place.
Who's karma? What kind of karma committed that deserved this result?

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Aryjna
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by Aryjna » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:09 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:05 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:02 pm

Ripened karma cannot be stopped. Even if Mao had hypothetically been murdered, why would this make a significant difference? There are many others to take his place.
Who's karma? What kind of karma committed that deserved this result?
It is impossible to determine all the causes for anything without being omniscient.

WeiHan
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by WeiHan » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:26 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:09 pm

It is impossible to determine all the causes for anything without being omniscient.
Then, it will be impossible to avoid all the causes for anything. then the teaching of karma is useless.

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Aryjna
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by Aryjna » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:28 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:26 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:09 pm

It is impossible to determine all the causes for anything without being omniscient.
Then, it will be impossible to avoid all the causes for anything. then the teaching of karma is useless.
That does not follow in the slightest.

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:43 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:05 pm
deserved
Since when have these illusions been happening? Since time without beginning.
What is wrong with them? One experiences nothing but suffering.

It says in Nanda’s Abiding in the Womb:
Birth is a suffering, aging is a suffering, sickness is a suffering, death is a suffering, to be separated from what one likes is a suffering, to encounter what one dislikes is a suffering, to strive after and obtain what one wants is a suffering, and also to undergo hardship in order to maintain what one has is a suffering.


Sgam-po-pa, Ken Holmes, and Thupten Jinpa. Ornament of Precious Liberation. Somerville, MA: Wisdom Publications, 2017.

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:59 pm

I view karma as a teaching to guide our thoughts, words, and actions towards the results that will actually benefit others.
It's a teaching for our own lives.
If we speculate about others, it's all too easy to fall into discussing their errors and faults.
Karma isn't the only thing like this.
If you go on a diet, you learn about nutrition and exercise, apply what you learn, then enjoy the fruits of better health.
It's not really information to apply to others... it sure doesn't benefit them to hear about what YOU need to do!

I always recommend the book "Karma: What It Is, What It Isn't, Why It Matters" by Traleg Kyabgon when karma comes up in this way.
Amitābha Buddha!

The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have unobstructed vision in all directions. Everything is in their presence; and I stand in front of them. -- Shantideva

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:30 pm

AlexanderS wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:20 pm
I know that tibetan buddhism as it is taught is peacefull and as it practiced by the vast majority tibetan buddhists, I know they value peace and compassion, but it occured to me that most of my favourite tantric buddhist masters of all time were actually technically killers according to their biographies. Spefically my favourite three Padmasambhava, Yeshe Tsogyal and Milarepa.
Killers are here more the Tibetan kings with their power and army, than Guru Rinpoche.
Padmasambhava starts of his princely life by killing a child by dropping his trident on him. He is then expelled to a charnel ground where he consorts with local dakinis. He then takes on a demonic form and slays all the men in a local tribe that has wrong views and has sex with all their women. He then later proceeds to bodghaya where he takes on the form of Shakya Senge and debates 500 brahmins. According to "The Lotus born" he wins the debate and everything is fine. According to the same story told in "Crazy Wisdom" by Trungpa, he loses the debate, and creates a destructive ceremony which summons a mudslide/landslide that kills the 500 brahmins on the spot.
I have read many things regarding the life of Guru Rinpoche, but this is unknown to me.
Could you give me some sources where this story is written ?

In Yeshe Tsogyals biography, her, padma and the rest of the tantric adepts engages in a contest of miracles against the bön priests. The bön priests summon lightning bolts to kill the buddhists, but tsogyal with her powers redirects them to kill the bön priests on the spot.
Yes there were some spiritual fights in the air, but for me personal many of these stories i take not so high. Many stories are advertisement stories, with many not proven stories.
Like the subduing of the Bön mountain Gods, who still are venerated by Bönpos.......
Needless to mention that Milarepa killed a lot people before he was enlightened, but did his perfect teacher Marpa not also at some point ask Milarepa to use his magic powers to take out some local bandits?
Mila stems from a Bön family and sure they were skilled in rituals. Like Milarepa, many used these skills in combat with others. Its like we can cook with fire or destroy with fire.
Personally I feel that when you look at most iconic masters of tibetan buddhism I find it quite surprising how peacefull it is, but can buddhas really be buddhas if they kill? Someone like padmasambhava was supposed to have been enlightened from the very beginning.
Guru Rinpoche was not a simple Tantrika. The Tibetan King wanted the best out of India. So He was utmost skilled in Dharma Teachings, killing and prosecutions, that was the task of the king.
Cannot imagine myself that a high realised Tantrika agrees to killing and prosecutions, impossible.

Personally just wondering how to reconcile the fact that buddhism is supposed to the religion of peacefull while icons engage in killing.
Tibetan Traditions, committed in favor of spreading their Monasteries many non Dharma methods, like confiscating monasteries, burning of wooden block prints, prosecutions.
That resulted finally in the great exodus in 1959, based on bad karma.
IMO were Bön and Nyingma not engaged in dirty politics , but Gelug that was the drop and the bucket. Therefore very positive the other side of Gelug , after the Exodus, which never would happen in the Tibet from before 1959.
The best meditation is no meditation

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:59 am

WeiHan wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:53 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:59 pm
Tenma wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:39 pm


So why not kill Mao Zedong during the time China began its invasion?
Good question. HHDL sticks with Vinaya rules as official public policy. Tantric adepts have a different course. I’m sure some
Sorcery was attempted. Obviously didn’t work. I recall important lamas from the time basically felt the circumstances were irreversible.
Has the reason been explained why wasn't the circumstances irreversible? I may have missed out the discussion somewhere.
Many combinations of circumstances from Tibet side, China side and the modern world.
I got my Chili Chilaya.

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by climb-up » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:12 pm

As has been mentioned, peaceful is not the point of Buddhism, enlightenment and compasssion are.
There are many stories that specifically use violence as an example of compassionate action.

One is of a disciple of Buddha who is on a ship, carrying a precious cargo, and learns that one of the passengers is going to kill everyone on the ship and take the treasure for himself. The disciple knows that this passenger is fully capable of doing it and kills him in order to save everyone on the ship.
He is very ashamed, and confesses to Buddha what he has done. Buddha explains that he was acting with compassion for the other people on the ship and, furthermore, the passenger killed was prevented doing an act that would accumulate very negative karma indeed. This was a good act.

HHDL shares a story about two monks who see a man about to attempt to cross a river that will surely kill him if he enters. They warn him and he ignores them.
One monk, having taken a vow to be non-vioent, let's the man go by; presumably feeling sorry that the man will now die.
The other monk, who has taken the same vows, punches the man on the nose; knocking him down long enough to demonstrate the ferocity of the river. For which the man eventually thanks him (...if I remember correctly, I could be wrong about the thanks).
Who committed a true act of violence in this situation?

Tantric samaya includes a list of people (types of people) whom it is wrong not to liberate. That means Thant they are killed, but 'liberate' is not (...just) a euphemism, but illustrates the compassionate intention required to make this course of action just.
Like the passenger on the boat, they are doing real damage to others, to the dharma, etc. as we'll ask to themselves and their own karma and it is to everyone's benefit that this is stopped.

Of course, if you are not fully enlightened you will probably just be acting out of anger or ignorance, in which case you're just a murderer, so it's not necessarily a recommendation, just a realization that the world is messy, circumstances are infinite and keeping to the essence of the teachings can sometimes look unexpected.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:43 pm

climb-up wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:12 pm
As has been mentioned, peaceful is not the point of Buddhism, enlightenment and compasssion are.
There are many stories that specifically use violence as an example of compassionate action.
Peaceful is the one in Buddhism who acts according Compassion and Wisdom.
One is of a disciple of Buddha who is on a ship, carrying a precious cargo, and learns that one of the passengers is going to kill everyone on the ship and take the treasure for himself. The disciple knows that this passenger is fully capable of doing it and kills him in order to save everyone on the ship.
He is very ashamed, and confesses to Buddha what he has done. Buddha explains that he was acting with compassion for the other people on the ship and, furthermore, the passenger killed was prevented doing an act that would accumulate very negative karma indeed. This was a good act.
Killing is for 99% forbidden in Buddhism and defending does not belong to killing.
Certain Kung Fu /Aikido / Jiu Jutsu is based on self defence where the opponent is not killed. But if the opponent falls and breaks his/her neck then this is not killing, because of the intention / motivation.
Killing is based on intention to kill, to agree to it, doing it and being satisfied by that.
In both cases one kills and i both cases it is the same, only the act of compassion seems to be different and belongs to that 1%.
The ones who kill to defend can be US soldiers who believe in democracy , a bad guy etc. and they try also to avoid that the enemy will cause suffering to others.Out of "compassion" for their US citizens, do they also belong to that 1% ?

Of course, if you are not fully enlightened you will probably just be acting out of anger or ignorance, in which case you're just a murderer, so it's not necessarily a recommendation, just a realization that the world is messy, circumstances are infinite and keeping to the essence of the teachings can sometimes look unexpected.
Like told before, that 1% exception is rare and in Tantra also. Tilopa and the killed fish who attains a higher rebirth , that is the famous example of that 1%, very rare and special, not something to perform for everybody.
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by climb-up » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:53 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:43 pm
climb-up wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:12 pm
As has been mentioned, peaceful is not the point of Buddhism, enlightenment and compasssion are.
There are many stories that specifically use violence as an example of compassionate action.
Peaceful is the one in Buddhism who acts according Compassion and Wisdom.
then why is there a distinction made between peaceful and wrathful?

(Btw if you add a bracket with /quote your responses won't appear within comment you're quoting.)
One is of a disciple of Buddha who is on a ship, carrying a precious cargo, and learns that one of the passengers is going to kill everyone on the ship and take the treasure for himself. The disciple knows that this passenger is fully capable of doing it and kills him in order to save everyone on the ship.
He is very ashamed, and confesses to Buddha what he has done. Buddha explains that he was acting with compassion for the other people on the ship and, furthermore, the passenger killed was prevented doing an act that would accumulate very negative karma indeed. This was a good act.
Killing is for 99% forbidden in Buddhism and defending does not belong to killing.
Certain Kung Fu /Aikido / Jiu Jutsu is based on self defence where the opponent is not killed. But if the opponent falls and breaks his/her neck then this is not killing, because of the intention / motivation.
Killing is based on intention to kill, to agree to it, doing it and being satisfied by that.
In both cases one kills and i both cases it is the same, only the act of compassion seems to be different and belongs to that 1%.
The ones who kill to defend can be US soldiers who believe in democracy , a bad guy etc. and they try also to avoid that the enemy will cause suffering to others.Out of "compassion" for their US citizens, do they also belong to that 1% ?

Of course, if you are not fully enlightened you will probably just be acting out of anger or ignorance, in which case you're just a murderer, so it's not necessarily a recommendation, just a realization that the world is messy, circumstances are infinite and keeping to the essence of the teachings can sometimes look unexpected.
Like told before, that 1% exception is rare and in Tantra also. Tilopa and the killed fish who attains a higher rebirth , that is the famous example of that 1%, very rare and special, not something to perform for everybody.

Of course it's not generally recommended, I certainly didn't mean to imply that it was (in fact I specifically tried to point out that it was not).

As for your definition of what is an is not killing; it certainly doesn't conflict with either my understanding or the point I was trying to make, I was just responding to the OP's question.
I'm pretty sure the point remains the same.

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by M.G. » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:17 pm

Buddhism denies the existence of an absolute morality, and in practice the Vajrayana counts among its heroes people who at times acted in ways which may seem shocking or bizarre. (That may even be part of its appeal to some.).

If one doesn’t perceive or believe in there being enlightened wisdom behind this antinomian and transgressive behavior it can be hard to accept, or even understand.

At a basic worldly level, I’d offer Buddhism - like every other world religion - is largely a mix of whatever its believers say it is and whatever they actually do, so in that sense I’d say the answer to the original question of whether Buddhism is peaceful is basically - this : sometimes yes and sometimes no, depending on who and where and when we’re focusing on.

WeiHan
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by WeiHan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:34 am

Basically, you are saying that violence in Buddhism is allowed as long as it has a good justification.

But then, which religions resort to violence without good justifications? In fact, who in the world resort to violence without good justifications? Does anyone need Buddhism to teach them non-violence, then?

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by M.G. » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:21 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:34 am
Basically, you are saying that violence in Buddhism is allowed as long as it has a good justification.

But then, which religions resort to violence without good justifications? In fact, who in the world resort to violence without good justifications? Does anyone need Buddhism to teach them non-violence, then?
That’s a good question.

Tibetan Buddhism has an entirely consequentialist ethic, to the point where it can come across as shocking, almost inhuman - many here are familiar with stories of Vajrayana masters who kill sentient beings, then ensure their rebirth in Pure Lands, guaranteeing their ultimate liberation.

That said, you’re correct to say that many religions, in practice, teach roughly similar ethics - “thou shalt not kill, unless God authorizes it. Then it’s OK, even meritorious, and the whole world will be better for it.”

So I’d agree one shouldn’t look to Buddhism if one is purely interested in peaceful morality. (And plenty of peaceful people aren’t Buddhist.)

You should really only turn to Buddhism if you think it’s the best path to enlightened wisdom. I’m not sure there’s anything else there you couldn’t find elsewhere.

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by WeiHan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:43 pm

M.G. wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:21 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:34 am
Basically, you are saying that violence in Buddhism is allowed as long as it has a good justification.

But then, which religions resort to violence without good justifications? In fact, who in the world resort to violence without good justifications? Does anyone need Buddhism to teach them non-violence, then?
That’s a good question.

Tibetan Buddhism has an entirely consequentialist ethic, to the point where it can come across as shocking, almost inhuman - many here are familiar with stories of Vajrayana masters who kill sentient beings, then ensure their rebirth in Pure Lands, guaranteeing their ultimate liberation.

That said, you’re correct to say that many religions, in practice, teach roughly similar ethics - “thou shalt not kill, unless God authorizes it. Then it’s OK, even meritorious, and the whole world will be better for it.”

So I’d agree one shouldn’t look to Buddhism if one is purely interested in peaceful morality. (And plenty of peaceful people aren’t Buddhist.)

You should really only turn to Buddhism if you think it’s the best path to enlightened wisdom. I’m not sure there’s anything else there you couldn’t find elsewhere.
However, that is really a way to mass propagate Buddhism in a easily understandable form. Directly preaching, rebirth, karma and other higher teachings is never going to gain followers in a fast clip. And these, we really have to solid proofs on them and have to admit that they are beliefs which one is free to choose whether to take or reject. Furthermore, these higher teachings never have visible influence on the society in a bigger scale. Peace will be different, at least people believe that once somebody proclaim that he has a solution to peace, it is likely he will attract some audience.

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by Aryjna » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:50 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:43 pm
M.G. wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:21 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:34 am
Basically, you are saying that violence in Buddhism is allowed as long as it has a good justification.

But then, which religions resort to violence without good justifications? In fact, who in the world resort to violence without good justifications? Does anyone need Buddhism to teach them non-violence, then?
That’s a good question.

Tibetan Buddhism has an entirely consequentialist ethic, to the point where it can come across as shocking, almost inhuman - many here are familiar with stories of Vajrayana masters who kill sentient beings, then ensure their rebirth in Pure Lands, guaranteeing their ultimate liberation.

That said, you’re correct to say that many religions, in practice, teach roughly similar ethics - “thou shalt not kill, unless God authorizes it. Then it’s OK, even meritorious, and the whole world will be better for it.”

So I’d agree one shouldn’t look to Buddhism if one is purely interested in peaceful morality. (And plenty of peaceful people aren’t Buddhist.)

You should really only turn to Buddhism if you think it’s the best path to enlightened wisdom. I’m not sure there’s anything else there you couldn’t find elsewhere.
However, that is really a way to mass propagate Buddhism in a easily understandable form. Directly preaching, rebirth, karma and other higher teachings is never going to gain followers in a fast clip. And these, we really have to solid proofs on them and have to admit that they are beliefs which one is free to choose whether to take or reject. Furthermore, these higher teachings never have visible influence on the society in a bigger scale. Peace will be different, at least people believe that once somebody proclaim that he has a solution to peace, it is likely he will attract some audience.
Preaching and reaching an audience is not the point.

WeiHan
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by WeiHan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:18 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:50 pm


Preaching and reaching an audience is not the point.
There is no right or wrong answers for this.

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Aryjna
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by Aryjna » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:51 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:18 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:50 pm


Preaching and reaching an audience is not the point.
There is no right or wrong answers for this.
That is debatable.

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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by AlexanderS » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:56 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:30 pm
AlexanderS wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:20 pm
I know that tibetan buddhism as it is taught is peacefull and as it practiced by the vast majority tibetan buddhists, I know they value peace and compassion, but it occured to me that most of my favourite tantric buddhist masters of all time were actually technically killers according to their biographies. Spefically my favourite three Padmasambhava, Yeshe Tsogyal and Milarepa.
Killers are here more the Tibetan kings with their power and army, than Guru Rinpoche.
Padmasambhava starts of his princely life by killing a child by dropping his trident on him. He is then expelled to a charnel ground where he consorts with local dakinis. He then takes on a demonic form and slays all the men in a local tribe that has wrong views and has sex with all their women. He then later proceeds to bodghaya where he takes on the form of Shakya Senge and debates 500 brahmins. According to "The Lotus born" he wins the debate and everything is fine. According to the same story told in "Crazy Wisdom" by Trungpa, he loses the debate, and creates a destructive ceremony which summons a mudslide/landslide that kills the 500 brahmins on the spot.
I have read many things regarding the life of Guru Rinpoche, but this is unknown to me.
Could you give me some sources where this story is written ?

In Yeshe Tsogyals biography, her, padma and the rest of the tantric adepts engages in a contest of miracles against the bön priests. The bön priests summon lightning bolts to kill the buddhists, but tsogyal with her powers redirects them to kill the bön priests on the spot.
Yes there were some spiritual fights in the air, but for me personal many of these stories i take not so high. Many stories are advertisement stories, with many not proven stories.
Like the subduing of the Bön mountain Gods, who still are venerated by Bönpos.......
Needless to mention that Milarepa killed a lot people before he was enlightened, but did his perfect teacher Marpa not also at some point ask Milarepa to use his magic powers to take out some local bandits?
Mila stems from a Bön family and sure they were skilled in rituals. Like Milarepa, many used these skills in combat with others. Its like we can cook with fire or destroy with fire.
Personally I feel that when you look at most iconic masters of tibetan buddhism I find it quite surprising how peacefull it is, but can buddhas really be buddhas if they kill? Someone like padmasambhava was supposed to have been enlightened from the very beginning.
Guru Rinpoche was not a simple Tantrika. The Tibetan King wanted the best out of India. So He was utmost skilled in Dharma Teachings, killing and prosecutions, that was the task of the king.
Cannot imagine myself that a high realised Tantrika agrees to killing and prosecutions, impossible.

Personally just wondering how to reconcile the fact that buddhism is supposed to the religion of peacefull while icons engage in killing.
Tibetan Traditions, committed in favor of spreading their Monasteries many non Dharma methods, like confiscating monasteries, burning of wooden block prints, prosecutions.
That resulted finally in the great exodus in 1959, based on bad karma.
IMO were Bön and Nyingma not engaged in dirty politics , but Gelug that was the drop and the bucket. Therefore very positive the other side of Gelug , after the Exodus, which never would happen in the Tibet from before 1959.
My sources for padmashambava killing in his youth is "The Lotus Born", his biography, written by Yeshe Tsogyal and translated by Erik Pema Kunsang. Another account where he kills 500 brahmins through a destructive ceremony is "Crazy Wisdom" by Trungpa.

My point with Milarepa was that Marpa asks him at some point to kill bandits with his magic, which also makes Marpa guilty of killing.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Is tibetan inherently peacefull ?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:12 pm

AlexanderS wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:56 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:30 pm
AlexanderS wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:20 pm


Killers are here more the Tibetan kings with their power and army, than Guru Rinpoche.



I have read many things regarding the life of Guru Rinpoche, but this is unknown to me.
Could you give me some sources where this story is written ?




Yes there were some spiritual fights in the air, but for me personal many of these stories i take not so high. Many stories are advertisement stories, with many not proven stories.
Like the subduing of the Bön mountain Gods, who still are venerated by Bönpos.......


Mila stems from a Bön family and sure they were skilled in rituals. Like Milarepa, many used these skills in combat with others. Its like we can cook with fire or destroy with fire.


Guru Rinpoche was not a simple Tantrika. The Tibetan King wanted the best out of India. So He was utmost skilled in Dharma Teachings, killing and prosecutions, that was the task of the king.
Cannot imagine myself that a high realised Tantrika agrees to killing and prosecutions, impossible.



Tibetan Traditions, committed in favor of spreading their Monasteries many non Dharma methods, like confiscating monasteries, burning of wooden block prints, prosecutions.
That resulted finally in the great exodus in 1959, based on bad karma.
IMO were Bön and Nyingma not engaged in dirty politics , but Gelug that was the drop and the bucket. Therefore very positive the other side of Gelug , after the Exodus, which never would happen in the Tibet from before 1959.
My sources for padmashambava killing in his youth is "The Lotus Born", his biography, written by Yeshe Tsogyal and translated by Erik Pema Kunsang. Another account where he kills 500 brahmins through a destructive ceremony is "Crazy Wisdom" by Trungpa.

My point with Milarepa was that Marpa asks him at some point to kill bandits with his magic, which also makes Marpa guilty of killing.
Tashi delek A,

Thanks for your reply.

Like told before, this Guru Rinpoche story is brand new for me.

- What do you think, has this story consequences for the status of Guru Rinpoche ?

We all know him as a realized Tantrika with great Compassion and Wisdom, therefore i cannot imagine myself that Guru Rinpoche would miss use Tantric powers / Siddhis.


KY.
The best meditation is no meditation

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