What is the point of vajra songs?

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Miroku
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What is the point of vajra songs?

Post by Miroku » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:45 pm

Hi guys,

I would like to ask what is the benefit of singing/reciting vajra songs. For example Milarepas vajra songs, or other ones. How does it help? Do you have some personal experience?
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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conebeckham
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Re: What is the point of vajra songs?

Post by conebeckham » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:08 pm

well......traditionally, these are "sung" during Drupchos, at least in my tradition.....there's also a tradition of singing them within a ritualized framework....we call this a "Kagyu Gursto Puja" or something.

The point of such songs, in a ritual context, is to reach the meaning, and not merely the words, of the songs. These are really pith instructions, most of them....Men Ngak.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

TrimePema
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Re: What is the point of vajra songs?

Post by TrimePema » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:45 pm

they are to help you recognize/stabilize nature of mind

Crazywisdom
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Re: What is the point of vajra songs?

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:00 pm

They are freestyle lyrics of Realization. The point of them was for yogis to demonstrate their minds have the power spontaneous wisdom, like jazz improv.
I got my Chili Chilaya.

Miroku
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Re: What is the point of vajra songs?

Post by Miroku » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:07 pm

Thanks guys! I thought it would be like that. :twothumbsup:

Thank you Con that is quite an interesting info!

Trime, I thought it would be like that.

And Crazy, I snap my fingers in appreciation, nicely put.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

Sennin
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Re: What is the point of vajra songs?

Post by Sennin » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:21 pm

Meditation Experiences:

E ma! Joyous, clear awareness!

Yogis live in natural caves
In solitary places with no clamor,
Practicing alone like the Indian sages
On green grass and mats
Arousing the wish to have love, compassion and bodhicitta,
They straighten their bodies and abandon all speech.

Clouds of thoughts clear.
They see the sky of mind vividly.
Though rainbows of feelings appear,
They do not fixate upon them.

Although they do not focus
On the slightest trace of a meditation object,
They are not distracted for an instant.

When they place their minds in equipoise like that,
Mind does not move, like Meru, lord of mountains.
The more their minds settle, the more they come to rest.

When yogis let go,
Though their minds fill with virtuous thoughts,
There are no obstructions.
Their bodies and minds are still competent,
But they are drawn into great bliss.

Yogis can see faces of deities naturally.
Miraculous displays of supernatural perceptions appear everywhere.

The moonlight of the yogis' renown
Clears away the darkness of delusion of deities and humans.
The lotuses of their disciples' hands close by themselves.
They prostrate themselves with respect
And divine music reverberates from the sky.
Rains of incense and flowers descend.
On the earth, people offer food and clothing.
They call out wondrous, gentle words in the ten directions.

Be a yogi like that
Who directly or indirectly benefits
The teachings and all beings without exception.

Otherwise, turn your back to the village,
Stay in a small monastery, or some mountain cave or rock cave,
And renounce your homeland.

Although you have made yourself a monk of the highest order,
Cast away the Vinaya rules of monastic discipline
And the four principles of virtuous training like grass,
If they are not important to you.

And if your vows are insincere,
Though you may call yourself a renunciant, your greed will be great,
And you will accumulate even more food and wealth than
a householder.

Sustaining the facade of a yogi like that, what good will you do?
If you are not sincere in your practice, be a person of the world.

I spoke this as it came to mind, in order to benefit all the disciples at the hermitage in Tsari

--(Shabkar) Gsung 'bum 4: 455-57--
Translated by Victoria Sujata
Shhh, look...a crystal!

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Malcolm
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Re: What is the point of vajra songs?

Post by Malcolm » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:34 am

A true vajra song is an expression of the sound of dharmata.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Adamantine
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Re: What is the point of vajra songs?

Post by Adamantine » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:16 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:34 am
A true vajra song is an expression of the sound of dharmata.
As in... Song of the Vajra...?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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