Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

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Mirror
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Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Mirror » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 pm

Hello, I'm new in vajrayana buddhism and as very rational and skeptical person, I'm looking for a proof for chakras and work with some energies. Because if it can't be proven, then I don't see any differences between this and the belief in a God.

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.

Thank you very much and sorry for my misunderstanding.

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conebeckham
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by conebeckham » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:55 pm

Can you see Buddha Nature? If not, why practice Buddhism?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Vasana
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Vasana » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:05 pm

There are many things in Buddhism let alone Vajrayana that are hard to believe in by blind faith. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water and just let the things that seem questionable to you sit in the 'maybe, maybe not' pile as you work with the teachings and methods of Buddhism that you can see the benefit of now. As your experience and and Knowelege develops you can then return to the questionable things and see if they're any clearer.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:09 pm

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.
Let's get this out of the way before we go further: no one needs to justify their practice, this is a site with lots of Vajrayana practitioners and not some place to conduct a skeptical James Randi style investigation.

That said:

They aren't meant to be a thing you "believe in". Firstly, no one is saying you actually have a thing that looks like a particular shape in your body, the color, shape etc. is a way of focusing on and working with energy that subtly exists at certain points in the body. It's a completely different way of looking at the mind/body relationship than Western medicine or science is, and the view of the body generally in Vajrayana is a radical departure from what we are typically raised with. If you can't get past that, it probably won't mean much to you. "Believing" in these things means almost nothing, experiencing them is the main thing. If you are going to have an inner battle about whether or not what you are experiencing is "real" by scientific standards every time you do a Buddhist practice, that is likely a big obstruction, because the entire worldview of Buddhism (and certainly not Vajrayana) is not premised on the same assumptions as scientific materialism is.
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WeiHan
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by WeiHan » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:22 pm

Mirror wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 pm
Hello, I'm new in vajrayana buddhism and as very rational and skeptical person, I'm looking for a proof for chakras and work with some energies. Because if it can't be proven, then I don't see any differences between this and the belief in a God.

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.

Thank you very much and sorry for my misunderstanding.
I am not sure if Chakras and energy can be proven scientifically but it is real that a Rinpoche by the name of Phakyab Rinpoche has cured himself of gangrene, which more than one western doctors had advised amputation of his legs.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen- ... 02301.html

And then, it is real that Tummo practice can raise one's body temperature to the extent that he can walk naked and without shoes in the snow...i forgotten that western guy name. At least, these are facts and not made up fairy tales.

Buddhism should be more than chakras? In my opinion, there are some rather strong evidences for rebirth...Furthermore, the teachings on dependent origination/emptiness can be derived logically...all these so far...and then the rest are maybe just religious beliefs which you can choose to believe or not.
Last edited by WeiHan on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kelwin
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Kelwin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:27 pm

Good question!

Just checked, and, yup! Still got em.
'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

Miroku
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Miroku » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:40 pm

Descriptions of channels and chakras are usually prescriptive, not descriptive. Do it and you will have such experience. Different ways of working with them or visualizing can lead to different experiences or used for different purpouses. It is not about believing, but about doing it and experiencing. Just like the whole of buddha dharma. Nothing to believe really a whole lot to apply and experience.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

zerwe
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by zerwe » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:51 pm

IMO, take your time. It takes time to develop faith and belief. Chakras, Wind energies, and Channels is probably the least of ways
your ability to believe will be challenged.
Shaun :namaste:

Simon E.
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Simon E. » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:53 pm

Like many things in Buddhadharma, the chakras exist from one pov and do not exist from another.

To borrow a phrase from another discussion, they are as real as YOU are, i.e. relatively, conventionally.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Motova » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:17 pm

Mirror wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 pm
Hello, I'm new in vajrayana buddhism and as very rational and skeptical person, I'm looking for a proof for chakras and work with some energies. Because if it can't be proven, then I don't see any differences between this and the belief in a God.

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.

Thank you very much and sorry for my misunderstanding.
Develop clairvoyance and become a psychic.
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:49 pm

Mirror wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 pm
Hello, I'm new in vajrayana buddhism and as very rational and skeptical person, I'm looking for a proof for chakras and work with some energies. Because if it can't be proven, then I don't see any differences between this and the belief in a God.

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.

Thank you very much and sorry for my misunderstanding.
Tashi delek M,

Welcome aboard !

The knowledge of Chakras has to be learned.
The awareness of the chakras has also to be learned and practized.

If you would make a try to practize this all , then after a while you would not be a skeptical person like at the moment.
To be sceptical is not bad at all , but it asks for provements /evidence, which can be only true, if one has had some hours of practise like some yoga called Tsalung Trulkor.

So try to do some Yoga / Tsalung Trulkor exercises under a qualified Master like for instance Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche.
Then the awareness / feeling of the chakras is quick obtained.

Look also here for Tsalung Trulkor Yoga:
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=19716

Best wishes with the exploring and awareness of your chakras
The best meditation is no meditation

climb-up
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by climb-up » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:17 pm

Miroku wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:40 pm
Descriptions of channels and chakras are usually prescriptive, not descriptive. Do it and you will have such experience. Different ways of working with them or visualizing can lead to different experiences or used for different purpouses. It is not about believing, but about doing it and experiencing. Just like the whole of buddha dharma. Nothing to believe really a whole lot to apply and experience.
:good: That is the key to understanding the channels and chakras, etc..
If you receive the teachings and do them, with full visualizations and everything, you will absolutely get results. Not ‘woo woo’ results, but very concrete experiences.

Whatever benefit there may or may not be in a new age understanding of chakras being open or not (“your heart chakra is really closed off right now”), that is not how they are traditionally viewed or thought of (afaik).

Mirror
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Mirror » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:00 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:22 pm
Mirror wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 pm
Hello, I'm new in vajrayana buddhism and as very rational and skeptical person, I'm looking for a proof for chakras and work with some energies. Because if it can't be proven, then I don't see any differences between this and the belief in a God.

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.

Thank you very much and sorry for my misunderstanding.
I am not sure if Chakras and energy can be proven scientifically but it is real that a Rinpoche by the name of Phakyab Rinpoche has cured himself of gangrene, which more than one western doctors had advised amputation of his legs.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen- ... 02301.html
Very nice, that's exactly, what I wanted to hear! Thanks!

AlexanderS
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by AlexanderS » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:14 pm

Mirror wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 pm
Hello, I'm new in vajrayana buddhism and as very rational and skeptical person, I'm looking for a proof for chakras and work with some energies. Because if it can't be proven, then I don't see any differences between this and the belief in a God.

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.

Thank you very much and sorry for my misunderstanding.
Try doing specific practice that activates your chakras. Meditation or kundalini yoga or whatever and you will find out.

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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:16 pm

You can also check out Wim Hof. He's technically doing his own thing, but he has had people actually study him, and AFAIK there is some small scientific understanding of what he is doing (something like Tummo in terms of technique), and he is able to do all kinds of crazy stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof

Not directly related to chakras, but the practices he does are essentially yogic practices, just his own flavor.
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Garudavista
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Garudavista » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:37 pm

No need to believe. I know them.

WeiHan
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by WeiHan » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:45 am

Mirror wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:00 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:22 pm
Mirror wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 pm
Hello, I'm new in vajrayana buddhism and as very rational and skeptical person, I'm looking for a proof for chakras and work with some energies. Because if it can't be proven, then I don't see any differences between this and the belief in a God.

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.

Thank you very much and sorry for my misunderstanding.
I am not sure if Chakras and energy can be proven scientifically but it is real that a Rinpoche by the name of Phakyab Rinpoche has cured himself of gangrene, which more than one western doctors had advised amputation of his legs.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen- ... 02301.html
Very nice, that's exactly, what I wanted to hear! Thanks!
There are probably some scientific basis. For example, it is quite similar to acupuncture points in chinese medicine. I have read and vaguely remember a study by a japanese researcher about visualising these acupoints using scientific instruments but I have not followed up with the research. Other studies have shown that these acupoints have higher concentration of nerves. I have thought about using very sensitive single photon counters to measure if there are differences in number of photons emitting from these centres under different conditions. Whatever it is, these research are not in the realm of mainstream science and are not highly regarded.

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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:43 am

Mirror wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 pm
Hello, I'm new in vajrayana buddhism and as very rational and skeptical person, I'm looking for a proof for chakras and work with some energies. Because if it can't be proven, then I don't see any differences between this and the belief in a God.

So if you believe in this, then why?
Is it something like praying? That means you know it won't help in the way, you think it helps, but it helps in the way of mind something like 'placebo effect'.

Thank you very much and sorry for my misunderstanding.
Hi "Mirror", given you are new you probably won't need to deal with chakra for some time yet.

Focus on preliminary teachings for now and leave the chakra for later. They are not important yet.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:35 pm

:good:
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Arupajhana7
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Re: Do you believe in chakras (energetic centers in our body)?

Post by Arupajhana7 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:41 pm

There is a teacher I know of who spent many years as a Zen monk in Japan. They had to go outside for long periods of the day when it was cold and snowing in just their robes. He was instructed to do energetic Tai Chi practices with the other monks to keep warm. He didn't believe in it at all and at first wouldn't do it. But after a while of feeling horribly cold he decided to do it and found that it worked.

He doesn't know how it works or why, but now he knows that it did for him.

He says "you don't have to believe in something for it to work".

You can just do it, see what happens, and no beliefs about it are required. Beliefs are concepts we project onto our experiences to categorize and conceptualize them. When practicing dharma the less of these filters the more directly we can experience reality.

Best of luck to you :)

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