Harmful Speech

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AJP
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Harmful Speech

Post by AJP » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am

As Secret Mantra practitioners we have Bodhisattva & Tantric Vows.

If we are faced with Harmful Speech either in person or via some Messaging App. Is there any advice from practitioners here that they either use or have learnt or received from Vajrayana Masters that can be applied.

Garchen Rinpoche I know teaches Patience amongst other things.

But what about other methods, maybe Tonglen, or increasing Bodhicitta/Compassion? Or some method of transformation?

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Ayu
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by Ayu » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:17 am

Empty Desire wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am
...

But what about other methods, maybe Tonglen, or increasing Bodhicitta/Compassion? Or some method of transformation?
This is definitly a good idea, but more good for them who practice than for them who spread hate speach. My teacher always explains, not even a Buddha can change a person who doesn't want to be changed. So, there's no alternative to keeping the right conduct and attitude.
What happens to those persons is quite a bit their own decision.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

AJP
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by AJP » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:46 am

Compassion focused practices and Tonglen are wonderful ways to develop Empathy.

I like this a lot as a focus in my practice in the degenerate age.

Here's a quote from Lama Yeshe

"I encourage people not to express their anger, not to let it out. Instead, I have people try to understand why they get angry, what causes it and how it arises. When you realize these things, instead of manifesting externally, your anger digests itself. In the West, some people believe that you get rid of your anger by expressing it, that you finish it by letting it out. Actually, in this case, what happens is that you leave an imprint in your mind to get angry again".

So if we have been harmed by somebody in the past, what about this notion of letting "anger digest itself". I've never tried this. If anybody has any pointers, links to resources or any other ideas on this subject I'd love to know.

Also, any practices to add to help benefit so as to be prepared when difficulties do present themselves.

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明安 Myoan
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by 明安 Myoan » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:08 pm

The chapter on patience from the Bodhisattvacharyāvatāra has been eye opening for me regarding anger. I can post some excerpts if you don't have access to a copy.

:reading:
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:17 pm

Empty Desire wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am
As Secret Mantra practitioners we have Bodhisattva & Tantric Vows.

If we are faced with Harmful Speech either in person or via some Messaging App. Is there any advice from practitioners here that they either use or have learnt or received from Vajrayana Masters that can be applied.

Garchen Rinpoche I know teaches Patience amongst other things.

But what about other methods, maybe Tonglen, or increasing Bodhicitta/Compassion? Or some method of transformation?
ime, one has to discover why the harmful speech happens. violence has it's own fundamentals, a cause and a circumstance.
persons that uses violence are in great pain, had a terrible experience, suffered abuse, etc.
one almost never knows who is in front of us nor what happened to him/her/etc. so don't be too rigid on them

once you more or less figured out what's going on you can do something like talk, tonglen, apply some method like korwa, shitro, tara, etc.
or you can feel thankful for the learning and go to yor own business, there is no need to bear such burden in the very moment
maybe you'll be there for this person when he/she/etc. needs you to be there and you can handle it

i don't want to offend, but the "be patient" argument is totally outdated at the light of tantric method. actually one can do a significative thing by doing a practice for dealing with this. patience is for us, but it wont do much good to others. don't be selfish.

orgyen jigmed
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by orgyen jigmed » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:17 pm

Although strictly speaking not Vajrayana, nevertheless I consdier these words of wisdom from Dogen Zenji very relevant to the topic:
Students, when you want to say something,
think about it three times before you say it.
Speak only if your words will benefit yourself and others.
Do not speak if it brings no benefit
"If the aspiration for enlightenment is your motivation in coming to see me, there is no remedy except meditative practice. I, too, will only practice." - Zurpoche Sakya Jungne

AJP
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by AJP » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:13 am

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:08 pm
The chapter on patience from the Bodhisattvacharyāvatāra has been eye opening for me regarding anger. I can post some excerpts if you don't have access to a copy.

:reading:
I now have a copy - thank-you!

AJP
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by AJP » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:41 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:17 pm
Empty Desire wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am
As Secret Mantra practitioners we have Bodhisattva & Tantric Vows.

If we are faced with Harmful Speech either in person or via some Messaging App. Is there any advice from practitioners here that they either use or have learnt or received from Vajrayana Masters that can be applied.

Garchen Rinpoche I know teaches Patience amongst other things.

But what about other methods, maybe Tonglen, or increasing Bodhicitta/Compassion? Or some method of transformation?
ime, one has to discover why the harmful speech happens. violence has it's own fundamentals, a cause and a circumstance.
persons that uses violence are in great pain, had a terrible experience, suffered abuse, etc.
one almost never knows who is in front of us nor what happened to him/her/etc. so don't be too rigid on them

once you more or less figured out what's going on you can do something like talk, tonglen, apply some method like korwa, shitro, tara, etc.
or you can feel thankful for the learning and go to yor own business, there is no need to bear such burden in the very moment
maybe you'll be there for this person when he/she/etc. needs you to be there and you can handle it

i don't want to offend, but the "be patient" argument is totally outdated at the light of tantric method. actually one can do a significative thing by doing a practice for dealing with this. patience is for us, but it wont do much good to others. don't be selfish.
:anjali:

I will make a note of this
Last edited by AJP on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

AJP
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by AJP » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:42 am

orgyen jigmed wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:17 pm
Although strictly speaking not Vajrayana, nevertheless I consdier these words of wisdom from Dogen Zenji very relevant to the topic:
Students, when you want to say something,
think about it three times before you say it.
Speak only if your words will benefit yourself and others.
Do not speak if it brings no benefit
Thank-you, these words show the importance of Bodhicitta itself.

SilenceMonkey
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by SilenceMonkey » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:28 pm


SilenceMonkey
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by SilenceMonkey » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:32 pm

Also, I find The Four Agreements helpful in trying situations.

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AJP
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Re: Harmful Speech

Post by AJP » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:29 pm

SilenceMonkey wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:28 pm
I like these:

https://studybuddhism.com/en/essentials ... -mVLa35Dws
I tried Digesting the Anger as taught by Lama Yeshe - quoted above.

It actually worked.

I went for a coffee with a non-Buddhist friend he was a bit flippant on the drive up to the place. In the past, I would have reacted feeling the need to 'right a wrong'. Instead, I allowed the Mind to digest the feeling so as to not allow the imprint of Anger to establish itself only for it to re-occur again in the future.

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