Harmful Speech

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Harmful Speech

Post by Empty Desire » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am

As Secret Mantra practitioners we have Bodhisattva & Tantric Vows.

If we are faced with Harmful Speech either in person or via some Messaging App. Is there any advice from practitioners here that they either use or have learnt or received from Vajrayana Masters that can be applied.

Garchen Rinpoche I know teaches Patience amongst other things.

But what about other methods, maybe Tonglen, or increasing Bodhicitta/Compassion? Or some method of transformation?
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 7010
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by Ayu » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:17 am

Empty Desire wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am
...

But what about other methods, maybe Tonglen, or increasing Bodhicitta/Compassion? Or some method of transformation?
This is definitly a good idea, but more good for them who practice than for them who spread hate speach. My teacher always explains, not even a Buddha can change a person who doesn't want to be changed. So, there's no alternative to keeping the right conduct and attitude.
What happens to those persons is quite a bit their own decision.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by Empty Desire » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:46 am

Compassion focused practices and Tonglen are wonderful ways to develop Empathy.

I like this a lot as a focus in my practice in the degenerate age.

Here's a quote from Lama Yeshe

"I encourage people not to express their anger, not to let it out. Instead, I have people try to understand why they get angry, what causes it and how it arises. When you realize these things, instead of manifesting externally, your anger digests itself. In the West, some people believe that you get rid of your anger by expressing it, that you finish it by letting it out. Actually, in this case, what happens is that you leave an imprint in your mind to get angry again".

So if we have been harmed by somebody in the past, what about this notion of letting "anger digest itself". I've never tried this. If anybody has any pointers, links to resources or any other ideas on this subject I'd love to know.

Also, any practices to add to help benefit so as to be prepared when difficulties do present themselves.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

User avatar
Monlam Tharchin
Global Moderator
Posts: 1958
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 am

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:08 pm

The chapter on patience from the Bodhisattvacharyāvatāra has been eye opening for me regarding anger. I can post some excerpts if you don't have access to a copy.

:reading:
Amitābha!
OM PADMO USHNISHA VIMALE HUM PHAT (Lotus Pinnacle of Amoghapasha)
OM HANU PHASHA BHARA HE YE SVAHA ("Just by Seeing" Mantra)
AH AAH SHA SA MA HA (Six Syllables of Clairvoyance Mantra)


The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have unobstructed vision in all directions.
Everything is in their presence; and I stand in front of them. -- Shantideva

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:17 pm

Empty Desire wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am
As Secret Mantra practitioners we have Bodhisattva & Tantric Vows.

If we are faced with Harmful Speech either in person or via some Messaging App. Is there any advice from practitioners here that they either use or have learnt or received from Vajrayana Masters that can be applied.

Garchen Rinpoche I know teaches Patience amongst other things.

But what about other methods, maybe Tonglen, or increasing Bodhicitta/Compassion? Or some method of transformation?
ime, one has to discover why the harmful speech happens. violence has it's own fundamentals, a cause and a circumstance.
persons that uses violence are in great pain, had a terrible experience, suffered abuse, etc.
one almost never knows who is in front of us nor what happened to him/her/etc. so don't be too rigid on them

once you more or less figured out what's going on you can do something like talk, tonglen, apply some method like korwa, shitro, tara, etc.
or you can feel thankful for the learning and go to yor own business, there is no need to bear such burden in the very moment
maybe you'll be there for this person when he/she/etc. needs you to be there and you can handle it

i don't want to offend, but the "be patient" argument is totally outdated at the light of tantric method. actually one can do a significative thing by doing a practice for dealing with this. patience is for us, but it wont do much good to others. don't be selfish.
what are you doing

orgyen jigmed
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by orgyen jigmed » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:17 pm

Although strictly speaking not Vajrayana, nevertheless I consdier these words of wisdom from Dogen Zenji very relevant to the topic:
Students, when you want to say something,
think about it three times before you say it.
Speak only if your words will benefit yourself and others.
Do not speak if it brings no benefit
"If the aspiration for enlightenment is your motivation in coming to see me, there is no remedy except meditative practice. I, too, will only practice." - Zurpoche Sakya Jungne

User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by Empty Desire » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:13 am

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:08 pm
The chapter on patience from the Bodhisattvacharyāvatāra has been eye opening for me regarding anger. I can post some excerpts if you don't have access to a copy.

:reading:
I now have a copy - thank-you!
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by Empty Desire » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:41 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:17 pm
Empty Desire wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am
As Secret Mantra practitioners we have Bodhisattva & Tantric Vows.

If we are faced with Harmful Speech either in person or via some Messaging App. Is there any advice from practitioners here that they either use or have learnt or received from Vajrayana Masters that can be applied.

Garchen Rinpoche I know teaches Patience amongst other things.

But what about other methods, maybe Tonglen, or increasing Bodhicitta/Compassion? Or some method of transformation?
ime, one has to discover why the harmful speech happens. violence has it's own fundamentals, a cause and a circumstance.
persons that uses violence are in great pain, had a terrible experience, suffered abuse, etc.
one almost never knows who is in front of us nor what happened to him/her/etc. so don't be too rigid on them

once you more or less figured out what's going on you can do something like talk, tonglen, apply some method like korwa, shitro, tara, etc.
or you can feel thankful for the learning and go to yor own business, there is no need to bear such burden in the very moment
maybe you'll be there for this person when he/she/etc. needs you to be there and you can handle it

i don't want to offend, but the "be patient" argument is totally outdated at the light of tantric method. actually one can do a significative thing by doing a practice for dealing with this. patience is for us, but it wont do much good to others. don't be selfish.
:anjali:

I will make a note of this
Last edited by Empty Desire on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by Empty Desire » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:42 am

orgyen jigmed wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:17 pm
Although strictly speaking not Vajrayana, nevertheless I consdier these words of wisdom from Dogen Zenji very relevant to the topic:
Students, when you want to say something,
think about it three times before you say it.
Speak only if your words will benefit yourself and others.
Do not speak if it brings no benefit
Thank-you, these words show the importance of Bodhicitta itself.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

SilenceMonkey
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by SilenceMonkey » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:28 pm


SilenceMonkey
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by SilenceMonkey » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:32 pm

Also, I find The Four Agreements helpful in trying situations.

Image
Attachments
Four Agreements.jpg
Four Agreements.jpg (66.77 KiB) Viewed 449 times

User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Harmful Speech

Post by Empty Desire » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:29 pm

SilenceMonkey wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:28 pm
I like these:

https://studybuddhism.com/en/essentials ... -mVLa35Dws
I tried Digesting the Anger as taught by Lama Yeshe - quoted above.

It actually worked.

I went for a coffee with a non-Buddhist friend he was a bit flippant on the drive up to the place. In the past, I would have reacted feeling the need to 'right a wrong'. Instead, I allowed the Mind to digest the feeling so as to not allow the imprint of Anger to establish itself only for it to re-occur again in the future.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Lingpupa and 60 guests