Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 1909
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am

Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?

pemachophel
Posts: 1256
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by pemachophel » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:29 am

Yes
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

User avatar
lelopa
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by lelopa » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:13 am

:good:
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 1909
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:31 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:29 am
Yes
:rolling:

User avatar
Anders
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Anders » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:17 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am
Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
Depends who you ask. I believe in vajrayana he is considered a buddha.

IMO the difference between avalokiteshvara being a buddha or 10th stage bodhisattva is negligible, at least as far as his relationship with people like us goes. He's pretty awesome either way.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra


User avatar
anjali
Global Moderator
Posts: 1566
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by anjali » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:29 pm

Image

Dharma Wheel Terms of Service and Reporting Procedures.
Wherever there is a human being, there is an opportunity for kindness. –-Seneca

User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Empty Desire » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:23 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am
Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
I think Buddha he/she has his/ her own Pure Land called Potala which is mentioned in Chenrezig Lord of Love.

There is an island in China called Mount Putuo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Putuo where exists his/her Bodhimanda.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

User avatar
Vasana
Posts: 1747
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:22 am

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Vasana » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm

2.24 - "
  • “Sarva­nīvaraṇa­viṣkambhin, noble son, this bodhisattva is taught to be illusory, unattainable, and subtle. This bodhisattva is described as being unstained; as being with form,a vast form, a hundred thousand arms, a trillion eyes, and eleven heads; as being a great yogin, a sublime yogin; as residing on the level of nirvāṇa; as having an excellent mind; as having great wisdom; as liberated from existence; as being from the good family; as being imperceptible; and as being wise; and therefore he casts no shadow in the midst of all phenomena."

    "“Thus, noble son, no one can see or hear Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara. No tathāgata can see the body of his true nature,let alone Samantabhadra or other bodhisattvas.

    “Noble son, this bodhisattva mahāsattva is inconceivable. He manifests inconceivable miracles. He has completely ripened many trillions of beings. He has led those beings onto the path to enlightenment. Having entered that path, they have gone to the realm of Sukhāvatī where they hear the Dharma from Tathāgata Amitābha.”"
The Basket’s Display
:heart:
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Empty Desire » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:50 pm

Vasana wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm
2.24 - "
  • “Sarva­nīvaraṇa­viṣkambhin, noble son, this bodhisattva is taught to be illusory, unattainable, and subtle. This bodhisattva is described as being unstained; as being with form,a vast form, a hundred thousand arms, a trillion eyes, and eleven heads; as being a great yogin, a sublime yogin; as residing on the level of nirvāṇa; as having an excellent mind; as having great wisdom; as liberated from existence; as being from the good family; as being imperceptible; and as being wise; and therefore he casts no shadow in the midst of all phenomena."

    "“Thus, noble son, no one can see or hear Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara. No tathāgata can see the body of his true nature,let alone Samantabhadra or other bodhisattvas.

    “Noble son, this bodhisattva mahāsattva is inconceivable. He manifests inconceivable miracles. He has completely ripened many trillions of beings. He has led those beings onto the path to enlightenment. Having entered that path, they have gone to the realm of Sukhāvatī where they hear the Dharma from Tathāgata Amitābha.”"
The Basket’s Display
:heart:
Added to the reading list!!!
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

ford_truckin
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:03 am

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by ford_truckin » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:01 pm

Buddha

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am

Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
如無為、如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 973
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:23 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am
Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
I would say no. As i understand, Buddhas doesn't uphold a particular point of view, Bodhisattvas does uphold a particular point of view.

Buddhas has gone beyhond, and Bodhisattvas are still in the realm of a kind of -gross, medium or subtle- ignorance.

This is only my opinion.
what are you doing

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:35 am

Of course, a Buddha manifesting as a Bodhisattva.

He has other manifestations too, such as Hayagriva.

If you follow the Nyingma presentation, Dharmakaya Amitabha, Sambhogakaya Chenrezig, and Nirmanakaya Padmasambhava.

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4943
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by conebeckham » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:54 am

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:35 am
Of course, a Buddha manifesting as a Bodhisattva.

He has other manifestations too, such as Hayagriva.

If you follow the Nyingma presentation, Dharmakaya Amitabha, Sambhogakaya Chenrezig, and Nirmanakaya Padmasambhava.
Yes. And there are HYT forms of Chenrezig in Sarma transmissions, as well.....all yidams are Sambhogakaya Buddhas, so....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:14 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:23 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am
Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
I would say no. As i understand, Buddhas doesn't uphold a particular point of view, Bodhisattvas does uphold a particular point of view.

Buddhas has gone beyhond, and Bodhisattvas are still in the realm of a kind of -gross, medium or subtle- ignorance.

This is only my opinion.
I think it says that beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas in Abhisamayalaṃkara. I need to look it up though.
如無為、如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 973
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:51 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am
Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
pemachophel wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:29 am
Yes
Best answer ever <3
what are you doing

Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PeterC, yan kong and 57 guests