Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

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Thomas Amundsen
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Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am

Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by pemachophel » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:29 am

Yes
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by lelopa » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:13 am

:good:
हूं हूं हूं
फट् फट् फट्

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:31 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:29 am
Yes
:rolling:

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Anders
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Anders » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:17 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am
Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
Depends who you ask. I believe in vajrayana he is considered a buddha.

IMO the difference between avalokiteshvara being a buddha or 10th stage bodhisattva is negligible, at least as far as his relationship with people like us goes. He's pretty awesome either way.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra


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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by anjali » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:29 pm

Image

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by AJP » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:23 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am
Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
I think Buddha he/she has his/ her own Pure Land called Potala which is mentioned in Chenrezig Lord of Love.

There is an island in China called Mount Putuo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Putuo where exists his/her Bodhimanda.

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Vasana » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm

2.24 - "
  • “Sarva­nīvaraṇa­viṣkambhin, noble son, this bodhisattva is taught to be illusory, unattainable, and subtle. This bodhisattva is described as being unstained; as being with form,a vast form, a hundred thousand arms, a trillion eyes, and eleven heads; as being a great yogin, a sublime yogin; as residing on the level of nirvāṇa; as having an excellent mind; as having great wisdom; as liberated from existence; as being from the good family; as being imperceptible; and as being wise; and therefore he casts no shadow in the midst of all phenomena."

    "“Thus, noble son, no one can see or hear Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara. No tathāgata can see the body of his true nature,let alone Samantabhadra or other bodhisattvas.

    “Noble son, this bodhisattva mahāsattva is inconceivable. He manifests inconceivable miracles. He has completely ripened many trillions of beings. He has led those beings onto the path to enlightenment. Having entered that path, they have gone to the realm of Sukhāvatī where they hear the Dharma from Tathāgata Amitābha.”"
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by AJP » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:50 pm

Vasana wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm
2.24 - "
  • “Sarva­nīvaraṇa­viṣkambhin, noble son, this bodhisattva is taught to be illusory, unattainable, and subtle. This bodhisattva is described as being unstained; as being with form,a vast form, a hundred thousand arms, a trillion eyes, and eleven heads; as being a great yogin, a sublime yogin; as residing on the level of nirvāṇa; as having an excellent mind; as having great wisdom; as liberated from existence; as being from the good family; as being imperceptible; and as being wise; and therefore he casts no shadow in the midst of all phenomena."

    "“Thus, noble son, no one can see or hear Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara. No tathāgata can see the body of his true nature,let alone Samantabhadra or other bodhisattvas.

    “Noble son, this bodhisattva mahāsattva is inconceivable. He manifests inconceivable miracles. He has completely ripened many trillions of beings. He has led those beings onto the path to enlightenment. Having entered that path, they have gone to the realm of Sukhāvatī where they hear the Dharma from Tathāgata Amitābha.”"
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by ford_truckin » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:01 pm

Buddha
"We should not express outwardly signs of wisdom, goodness, or diligence, for inwardly we are filled with falsity."
- Shinran Shonin

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Caoimhghín » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am

Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:23 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am
Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
I would say no. As i understand, Buddhas doesn't uphold a particular point of view, Bodhisattvas does uphold a particular point of view.

Buddhas has gone beyhond, and Bodhisattvas are still in the realm of a kind of -gross, medium or subtle- ignorance.

This is only my opinion.

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:35 am

Of course, a Buddha manifesting as a Bodhisattva.

He has other manifestations too, such as Hayagriva.

If you follow the Nyingma presentation, Dharmakaya Amitabha, Sambhogakaya Chenrezig, and Nirmanakaya Padmasambhava.

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by conebeckham » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:54 am

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:35 am
Of course, a Buddha manifesting as a Bodhisattva.

He has other manifestations too, such as Hayagriva.

If you follow the Nyingma presentation, Dharmakaya Amitabha, Sambhogakaya Chenrezig, and Nirmanakaya Padmasambhava.
Yes. And there are HYT forms of Chenrezig in Sarma transmissions, as well.....all yidams are Sambhogakaya Buddhas, so....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Caoimhghín » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:14 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:23 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am
Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
I would say no. As i understand, Buddhas doesn't uphold a particular point of view, Bodhisattvas does uphold a particular point of view.

Buddhas has gone beyhond, and Bodhisattvas are still in the realm of a kind of -gross, medium or subtle- ignorance.

This is only my opinion.
I think it says that beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas in Abhisamayalaṃkara. I need to look it up though.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:51 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am
Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
pemachophel wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:29 am
Yes
Best answer ever <3

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