Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

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Thomas Amundsen
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Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by pemachophel »

Yes
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by lelopa »

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

pemachophel wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:29 amYes
:rolling:
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Anders »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
Depends who you ask. I believe in vajrayana he is considered a buddha.

IMO the difference between avalokiteshvara being a buddha or 10th stage bodhisattva is negligible, at least as far as his relationship with people like us goes. He's pretty awesome either way.
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As your companion in practice"

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
I think Buddha he/she has his/ her own Pure Land called Potala which is mentioned in Chenrezig Lord of Love.

There is an island in China called Mount Putuo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Putuo where exists his/her Bodhimanda.
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Vasana »

2.24 - "
  • “Sarva­nīvaraṇa­viṣkambhin, noble son, this bodhisattva is taught to be illusory, unattainable, and subtle. This bodhisattva is described as being unstained; as being with form,a vast form, a hundred thousand arms, a trillion eyes, and eleven heads; as being a great yogin, a sublime yogin; as residing on the level of nirvāṇa; as having an excellent mind; as having great wisdom; as liberated from existence; as being from the good family; as being imperceptible; and as being wise; and therefore he casts no shadow in the midst of all phenomena."

    "“Thus, noble son, no one can see or hear Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara. No tathāgata can see the body of his true nature,let alone Samantabhadra or other bodhisattvas.

    “Noble son, this bodhisattva mahāsattva is inconceivable. He manifests inconceivable miracles. He has completely ripened many trillions of beings. He has led those beings onto the path to enlightenment. Having entered that path, they have gone to the realm of Sukhāvatī where they hear the Dharma from Tathāgata Amitābha.”"
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Vasana wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm 2.24 - "
  • “Sarva­nīvaraṇa­viṣkambhin, noble son, this bodhisattva is taught to be illusory, unattainable, and subtle. This bodhisattva is described as being unstained; as being with form,a vast form, a hundred thousand arms, a trillion eyes, and eleven heads; as being a great yogin, a sublime yogin; as residing on the level of nirvāṇa; as having an excellent mind; as having great wisdom; as liberated from existence; as being from the good family; as being imperceptible; and as being wise; and therefore he casts no shadow in the midst of all phenomena."

    "“Thus, noble son, no one can see or hear Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara. No tathāgata can see the body of his true nature,let alone Samantabhadra or other bodhisattvas.

    “Noble son, this bodhisattva mahāsattva is inconceivable. He manifests inconceivable miracles. He has completely ripened many trillions of beings. He has led those beings onto the path to enlightenment. Having entered that path, they have gone to the realm of Sukhāvatī where they hear the Dharma from Tathāgata Amitābha.”"
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by ford_truckin »

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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by jet.urgyen »

Coëmgenu wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
I would say no. As i understand, Buddhas doesn't uphold a particular point of view, Bodhisattvas does uphold a particular point of view.

Buddhas has gone beyhond, and Bodhisattvas are still in the realm of a kind of -gross, medium or subtle- ignorance.

This is only my opinion.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Sonam Wangchug »

Of course, a Buddha manifesting as a Bodhisattva.

He has other manifestations too, such as Hayagriva.

If you follow the Nyingma presentation, Dharmakaya Amitabha, Sambhogakaya Chenrezig, and Nirmanakaya Padmasambhava.
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by conebeckham »

Sonam Wangchug wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:35 am Of course, a Buddha manifesting as a Bodhisattva.

He has other manifestations too, such as Hayagriva.

If you follow the Nyingma presentation, Dharmakaya Amitabha, Sambhogakaya Chenrezig, and Nirmanakaya Padmasambhava.
Yes. And there are HYT forms of Chenrezig in Sarma transmissions, as well.....all yidams are Sambhogakaya Buddhas, so....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
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"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by Caoimhghín »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:23 am
Coëmgenu wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am Aren't beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas, albeit not "supreme" ones?
I would say no. As i understand, Buddhas doesn't uphold a particular point of view, Bodhisattvas does uphold a particular point of view.

Buddhas has gone beyhond, and Bodhisattvas are still in the realm of a kind of -gross, medium or subtle- ignorance.

This is only my opinion.
I think it says that beings on stages 7-10 or 8-10 all different classes of Buddhas in Abhisamayalaṃkara. I need to look it up though.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
jet.urgyen
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Re: Chenrezig/Avalokita - Buddha or Bodhisattva?

Post by jet.urgyen »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am Is Chenrezig/Avalokita a Buddha or a Bodhisattva?
pemachophel wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:29 amYes
Best answer ever <3
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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