Help understand quote

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Dvs
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Help understand quote

Post by Dvs »

In Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche book:

"Enlightened Courage: An Explanation of Atisha's Seven Point Mind Training"

He says, " Perfect enlightenment, in fact, is free from both samsara and nirvana."

What does he mean by this? I thought nirvana was the ultimate goal.

Cheers.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Help understand quote

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Dvs wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 am In Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche book:

"Enlightened Courage: An Explanation of Atisha's Seven Point Mind Training"

He says, " Perfect enlightenment, in fact, is free from both samsara and nirvana."

What does he mean by this? I thought nirvana was the ultimate goal.

Cheers.
In Mahayana the goal is Samyaksambodhi - full enlightenment of a Buddha. Mahayana views the enlightenment of Arhats (total cessation of the kleshas - i.e. "Nirvana") as not being the final goal. Therefore, full enlightenment transcends both. That's the basic gist as I understand it. It gets confusing because some texts (Lankavatara for instance) will also refer to this enlightenment as "Nirvana, but there is a whole section of it where different views on Nirvana are explained. Sometimes this full enlightenment is also referred to as non-abiding Nirvana.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
Dvs
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Re: Help understand quote

Post by Dvs »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:02 am
Dvs wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 am In Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche book:

"Enlightened Courage: An Explanation of Atisha's Seven Point Mind Training"

He says, " Perfect enlightenment, in fact, is free from both samsara and nirvana."

What does he mean by this? I thought nirvana was the ultimate goal.

Cheers.
In Mahayana the goal is Samyaksambodhi - full enlightenment of a Buddha. Mahayana views the enlightenment of Arhats (total cessation of the kleshas - i.e. "Nirvana") as not being the final goal. Therefore, full enlightenment transcends both. That's the basic gist as I understand it. It gets confusing because some texts (Lankavatara for instance) will also refer to this enlightenment as "Nirvana, but there is a whole section of it where different views on Nirvana are explained. Sometimes this full enlightenment is also referred to as non-abiding Nirvana.
Thanks for the reply!
jet.urgyen
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Re: Help understand quote

Post by jet.urgyen »

Dvs wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 am In Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche book:

"Enlightened Courage: An Explanation of Atisha's Seven Point Mind Training"

He says, " Perfect enlightenment, in fact, is free from both samsara and nirvana."

What does he mean by this? I thought nirvana was the ultimate goal.

Cheers.
Free from considerations.

Free even from the "no samsara to reject and no nirvana to pursue/accept" consideration.

This is more or less what i understand.

My friend, i really doubt there is an authentic goal.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Help understand quote

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

1. If you look at samsara as one thing, and nirvana as something else, as its opposite,
then this is a duality, dualistic thinking, which is conceptual.
Perfect realization goes beyond, or transcends all dualities and all conceptualities.
That's one way to look at it.

2. Everything we experience is within a context. A rope is just a rope, unless you are talking about hanging someone.
So, when we look at the world in a confused way, not understanding emptiness and the interconnectedness of things, the temporary nature of phenomena and so on, that is samsara. When we look at it clearly through realization, that's nirvana.
But nothing outside of the mind has changed. Only our experience, only our way of seeing has changed.
That's another way to look at it.

3. We think samsara is one thing and Enlightenment or buddhahood is another thing.
But realization isn't in dwelling in one place or another. It's the active moment of awakening.
It's the transition, the constant transition, or if you are able, the constantly occurring transition from sleep to awake,
that consumes every moment effortlessly.
Just as you can't identify a specific moment when an acorn stops being a seed, and starts being a tree, it's just continuous.
That's still another way of looking at it.

4. Finally, everything we call samsara is a source of enlightenment.
It's what we examine, dissect, and mess up that provides the opportunity to gain wisdom and merit.
This is the analogy of the spotless lotus that grows out of the murky muddy water.
Without the slimy, stagnant pool, the lotus won't grow.
That's another way of looking at it.
.
.
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EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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