You don't really need this. All you need is the medium thun, since you are a DC guy. And if you want to practice a Ngondro, well, there is the Ati Lamgi Ngondro.
New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
Discussion moved from here.
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
I completed the full accumulations for the Kagyu Ngondro, but when I started practicing in the Dudjom Tersar; LOTR asked me to do accumulations of the concise Dudjom Tersar Ngondro too.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
And this is very excellent.Grigoris wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pmI completed the full accumulations for the Kagyu Ngondro, but when I started practicing in the Dudjom Tersar; LOTR asked me to do accumulations of the concise Dudjom Tersar Ngondro too.
However, JD's root guru is the late ChNN. There is no reason for him to practice other termas when he can practice the fresh termas of his master from whom he has already received the full and complete transmission. If he wants to practice guru yoga, he can practice the guru yoga of the medium thun. It is no different at all from the guru yoga of Dudjom Tersar, Longchen Nyingthig, etc., in meaning. And there is the ngondro practice in the Longsal teachings, mentioned above. I am just reminding him of this.
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but what does it mean to have a root guru that is no longer incarnate? Especially in regards to their terma.
It is something that I have been thinking about in connection to my own teacher and his terma. My view is that one has to achieve a certain level of realisation before their teacher's passing, because after they are gone, one will not have anybody to rely on (unless, of course, others have achieved realisation before you have).
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
It means you have a root guru who has passed, that's all. It changes nothing.
One has the path the outer guru taught, which is the inner guru. This is what I am pointing out. As long has one has complete instructions, then one is going to be fine.It is something that I have been thinking about in connection to my own teacher and his terma. My view is that one has to achieve a certain level of realisation before their teacher's passing, because after they are gone, one will not have anybody to rely on (unless, of course, others have achieved realisation before you have).
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Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:34 pmAnd this is very excellent.
However, JD's root guru is the late ChNN. There is no reason for him to practice other termas when he can practice the fresh termas of his master from whom he has already received the full and complete transmission. If he wants to practice guru yoga, he can practice the guru yoga of the medium thun. It is no different at all from the guru yoga of Dudjom Tersar, Longchen Nyingthig, etc., in meaning. And there is the ngondro practice in the Longsal teachings, mentioned above. I am just reminding him of this.
How do I even obtain that Ngondro? I don't remember if I received the lung for it either.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
CHNN gave this lung frequently. Just look up retreats you gave attended on line, and track down the lung list. I am 100 precent certain you will discover you have received this transmission. Anyway, there is nothing in any Ngondro that is missing from Medium Thun. You really do not need anything beyond the short, medium, and long thun practices. The only reason to do some other Ngondro is if you meet some Lama who insists that you must, and you are actually inspired to practice under their direction. But in the mean time, since this is not the case, you do not need this transmission at all.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:24 pmMalcolm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:34 pmAnd this is very excellent.
However, JD's root guru is the late ChNN. There is no reason for him to practice other termas when he can practice the fresh termas of his master from whom he has already received the full and complete transmission. If he wants to practice guru yoga, he can practice the guru yoga of the medium thun. It is no different at all from the guru yoga of Dudjom Tersar, Longchen Nyingthig, etc., in meaning. And there is the ngondro practice in the Longsal teachings, mentioned above. I am just reminding him of this.How do I even obtain that Ngondro? I don't remember if I received the lung for it either.
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Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Just to be clear, is it this book?
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=332
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=332
Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 pmCHNN gave this lung frequently. Just look up retreats you gave attended on line, and track down the lung list. I am 100 precent certain you will discover you have received this transmission. Anyway, there is nothing in any Ngondro that is missing from Medium Thun. You really do not need anything beyond the short, medium, and long thun practices. The only reason to do some other Ngondro is if you meet some Lama who insists that you must, and you are actually inspired to practice under their direction. But in the mean time, since this is not the case, you do not need this transmission at all.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:24 pmMalcolm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:34 pm
And this is very excellent.
However, JD's root guru is the late ChNN. There is no reason for him to practice other termas when he can practice the fresh termas of his master from whom he has already received the full and complete transmission. If he wants to practice guru yoga, he can practice the guru yoga of the medium thun. It is no different at all from the guru yoga of Dudjom Tersar, Longchen Nyingthig, etc., in meaning. And there is the ngondro practice in the Longsal teachings, mentioned above. I am just reminding him of this.How do I even obtain that Ngondro? I don't remember if I received the lung for it either.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Yes, and other texts.pueraeternus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:15 pm Just to be clear, is it this book?
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=332
Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 pmCHNN gave this lung frequently. Just look up retreats you gave attended on line, and track down the lung list. I am 100 precent certain you will discover you have received this transmission. Anyway, there is nothing in any Ngondro that is missing from Medium Thun. You really do not need anything beyond the short, medium, and long thun practices. The only reason to do some other Ngondro is if you meet some Lama who insists that you must, and you are actually inspired to practice under their direction. But in the mean time, since this is not the case, you do not need this transmission at all.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:24 pm
How do I even obtain that Ngondro? I don't remember if I received the lung for it either.
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
This is the book to get "The Crucial Preliminaries of the Path of Ati" it contains a written commentary by Rinpoche.pueraeternus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:15 pm Just to be clear, is it this book?
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=332
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Then that would be the Longsal Vol 3 book:
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=327
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=327
heart wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:24 pmThis is the book to get "The Crucial Preliminaries of the Path of Ati" it contains a written commentary by Rinpoche.pueraeternus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:15 pm Just to be clear, is it this book?
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=332
/magnus
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
No, for some reason it isn't available there, you have to go here, and also make an account to see it: https://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en/pueraeternus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:42 pm Then that would be the Longsal Vol 3 book:
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=327
It is called "The Crucial Preliminaries of the Path of Ati". Part of these books, the Longsal commentary.
http://melong.com/news-from-ka-ter-translation-project/
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
- pueraeternus
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
I see. Thanks.
This is interesting:
This is interesting:
Also the work on the Dra Thalgyur Tantra is proceeding.
heart wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:49 pmNo, for some reason it isn't available there, you have to go here, and also make an account to see it: https://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en/pueraeternus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:42 pm Then that would be the Longsal Vol 3 book:
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=327
It is called "The Crucial Preliminaries of the Path of Ati". Part of these books, the Longsal commentary.
http://melong.com/news-from-ka-ter-translation-project/
/magnus
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
The MahaGuru CHNNR gave unsurpassed upadesha . That's like receiving the ticket to the last station. Choo choo.Grigoris wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:45 pm Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but what does it mean to have a root guru that is no longer incarnate? Especially in regards to their terma.
It is something that I have been thinking about in connection to my own teacher and his terma. My view is that one has to achieve a certain level of realisation before their teacher's passing, because after they are gone, one will not have anybody to rely on (unless, of course, others have achieved realisation before you have).
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
If only it were so simple. My experience is that one needs a teacher on hand for when various issues come up and to explain details as they arise.
I have been on trains where in the middle of the night they split the train and send one section in one direction and the other elsewhere. I have also been on trains where you have to get off at a certain station and transfer to another train. If you did not read the ticket right (which is in a largely incomprehensible language) or were not informed by the conductor, you may end up in the completely wrong location.
Choo choo...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
I'm texting this at work so I have to keep it brief. I understand your point. I use to feel the need to be attached at the hip to the Guru. Now I don't.Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:26 amIf only it were so simple. My experience is that one needs a teacher on hand for when various issues come up and to explain details as they arise.
I have been on trains where in the middle of the night they split the train and send one section in one direction and the other elsewhere. I have also been on trains where you have to get off at a certain station and transfer to another train. If you did not read the ticket right (which is in a largely incomprehensible language) or were not informed by the conductor, you may end up in the completely wrong location.
Choo choo...
Even so, for me it is that simple. Because for me to listen and apply the teachings of an awakened one, awakening is ensured.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Good on you! But I did not say anything about being attached at the hip. My teacher lives 5,432km away and I see him once a year for a week.
It is one thing to do practices that are taught as part of an established lineage and another thing to practice the terma of a specific teacher that are not part of a lineage collection (tersar). In the first instance any teacher that belongs to the lineage should have the experience to guide you, in the second instance...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
By ChNN's design, there are plenty of senior DC instructors around to support people in this interim period.Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:29 pmGood on you! But I did not say anything about being attached at the hip. My teacher lives 5,432km away and I see him once a year for a week.
It is one thing to do practices that are taught as part of an established lineage and another thing to practice the terma of a specific teacher that are not part of a lineage collection (tersar). In the first instance any teacher that belongs to the lineage should have the experience to guide you, in the second instance...
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Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
There are, but honestly the impact is somewhat limited when all you can do is email someone, valuable as that can be at times. There are no gars near me or anything, no DC practitioners to meet up with. I personally don't want to attempt something like the Tuns simply from a book. The DC practices I do engage in I feel like I learned from Rinpoche during webcast retreats. On the other hand, I have other lineages that I can receive instruction in in person, and which I have already done a number of times with groups, so I know the melodies etc. somewhat, which was my idea with this Ngondro. I'm tabling the idea for now anyway as my interest in Ngondro has always run hot and cold.Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:18 pmBy ChNN's design, there are plenty of senior DC instructors around to support people in this interim period.Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:29 pmGood on you! But I did not say anything about being attached at the hip. My teacher lives 5,432km away and I see him once a year for a week.
It is one thing to do practices that are taught as part of an established lineage and another thing to practice the terma of a specific teacher that are not part of a lineage collection (tersar). In the first instance any teacher that belongs to the lineage should have the experience to guide you, in the second instance...
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama