New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
Sorry, I meant to say "outside of an established lineage", but it didn't fit in the title bar.Pero wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:11 pmI don't think that's how it works. A teaching can have its own lineage (teacher --> student --> becomes teacher --> student etc.), it doesn't have to be part of another lineage.Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:03 pmFor example: LOTR has his "terma" (for want of a better term), but they do not belong in the Dudjom Tersar, although Rinpoche practices in that lineage.Pero wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:56 pm I don't understand the title. There is no continuation without a lineage. But by received empowerments and teachings you are already part of the lineage. Of course the lineage will die with the last generation if there is no one qualified in that generation after the originator has passed.
They are new terma and they are practiced outside of a lineage. When Rinpoche passes into parinirvana the teachings may ot be incorporated into the Dudjom tersar and so...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
Greg,
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you that a living Teacher with Whom one has a relationship in meat-space is extremely important, at least for many practitioners. (We've been over this issue before on this forum.) However, I'd like to Devil's advocate about terma after the Terton has died. Terma are revealed at a certain place, at a certain time, and to certain individuals. Who's to say that a terma practiced for a single generation (or even by a single person for that matter) hasn't done the job it was intended by Guru Rinpoche to do?
Also, in terms of LOTR's terma in particular, since you feel strongly about their continuity, maybe you're the lineage holder. You just need to ramp up your game a bit.
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you that a living Teacher with Whom one has a relationship in meat-space is extremely important, at least for many practitioners. (We've been over this issue before on this forum.) However, I'd like to Devil's advocate about terma after the Terton has died. Terma are revealed at a certain place, at a certain time, and to certain individuals. Who's to say that a terma practiced for a single generation (or even by a single person for that matter) hasn't done the job it was intended by Guru Rinpoche to do?
Also, in terms of LOTR's terma in particular, since you feel strongly about their continuity, maybe you're the lineage holder. You just need to ramp up your game a bit.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
A bit???!!!pemachophel wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:58 pmAlso, in terms of LOTR's terma in particular, since you feel strongly about their continuity, maybe you're the lineage holder. You just need to ramp up your game a bit.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
- pueraeternus
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Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Ah. That explains the trip they made to China even within the first 49 days of his parinirvana.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
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Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
i heard a similar insinuation from a lotsawa friend: "idc havn't produced any realized practitioner/instructor in the entire world". when this was said, publicly, i became aware that maybe people think that when a practitioner attains some specific or ultimate realization then will show up and go around giving teachings and alike.
that is very mistaken.
that is very mistaken.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
I don't think so.pueraeternus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:33 am Ah. That explains the trip they made to China even within the first 49 days of his parinirvana.
This Khenpo is actually in Taiwan. I tried to enquire about more information about his background and his teachings and I am not sure if he really is teaching ChNN's teachings. I don't want to say more in public. If you want more info you can PM me, but anyway, this does not really concern Western practitioners.
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Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
http://melong.com/retreat-in-chengdu/MiphamFan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:46 amI don't think so.pueraeternus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:33 am Ah. That explains the trip they made to China even within the first 49 days of his parinirvana.
This Khenpo is actually in Taiwan. I tried to enquire about more information about his background and his teachings and I am not sure if he really is teaching ChNN's teachings. I don't want to say more in public. If you want more info you can PM me, but anyway, this does not really concern Western practitioners.
http://melong.com/mandarava-sogtig-retr ... he-wangpo/
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Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
Interesting that this Khenpo dresses in lay clothes. Generally the title Khenpo is reserved for gelongs: those holding the full set of monastic vows. Nowadays many Khenpos who have achieved the title while monks, who later give back their vows (or break them?) maintain the title due to people’s habit of calling them by it. However even the “Khenpo” Zangpo Rinpoche who heads many of the Dudjom tersar centers in Nepal once he took a Chinese khandro, changed his name in official documents and announcements accordingly to Lama Zangpo, or so I heard. Anyone know the story with this Khenpo Yeshe Wangpo?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Well, I am based in the west now, so my concern would be how DC here can continue without someone able to give DI.MiphamFan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:46 amI don't think so.pueraeternus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:33 am Ah. That explains the trip they made to China even within the first 49 days of his parinirvana.
This Khenpo is actually in Taiwan. I tried to enquire about more information about his background and his teachings and I am not sure if he really is teaching ChNN's teachings. I don't want to say more in public. If you want more info you can PM me, but anyway, this does not really concern Western practitioners.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
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Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
It's my understanding that, in Nyingma, when someone has completed all the coursework and passed the exams for the Khenpo "degree" but they are a layman, not a gelong, they are called Loppon or Acharya (like Loppon Orgyen Tenzin and Acharya Lama Dawa Chodrak).
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
This person must have amazing clairvoyance to be so confident of their opinion; however, what it actually shows is that they know nothing at all about Dzogchen teachings.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:39 am i heard a similar insinuation from a lotsawa friend: "idc havn't produced any realized practitioner/instructor in the entire world".
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Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
i agree.Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:44 pmThis person must have amazing clairvoyance to be so confident of their opinion; however, what it actually shows is that they know nothing at all about Dzogchen teachings.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:39 am i heard a similar insinuation from a lotsawa friend: "idc havn't produced any realized practitioner/instructor in the entire world".
also i'm afraid that he is influenced by his lama. I gathered precautions and also indirect evidence that he secretly used to criticize ChNN.
it is sad that when one examines and scratches a bit and then find such things.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Are thun practices considered part of Chnn termas?Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 pmCHNN gave this lung frequently. Just look up retreats you gave attended on line, and track down the lung list. I am 100 precent certain you will discover you have received this transmission. Anyway, there is nothing in any Ngondro that is missing from Medium Thun. You really do not need anything beyond the short, medium, and long thun practices. The only reason to do some other Ngondro is if you meet some Lama who insists that you must, and you are actually inspired to practice under their direction. But in the mean time, since this is not the case, you do not need this transmission at all.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:24 pmMalcolm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:34 pm
And this is very excellent.
However, JD's root guru is the late ChNN. There is no reason for him to practice other termas when he can practice the fresh termas of his master from whom he has already received the full and complete transmission. If he wants to practice guru yoga, he can practice the guru yoga of the medium thun. It is no different at all from the guru yoga of Dudjom Tersar, Longchen Nyingthig, etc., in meaning. And there is the ngondro practice in the Longsal teachings, mentioned above. I am just reminding him of this.How do I even obtain that Ngondro? I don't remember if I received the lung for it either.
Re: empowerment for Dudjom Tersar Ngondro
Depends on what you understand by "terma."Tata1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:42 pmAre thun practices considered part of Chnn termas?Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 pmCHNN gave this lung frequently. Just look up retreats you gave attended on line, and track down the lung list. I am 100 precent certain you will discover you have received this transmission. Anyway, there is nothing in any Ngondro that is missing from Medium Thun. You really do not need anything beyond the short, medium, and long thun practices. The only reason to do some other Ngondro is if you meet some Lama who insists that you must, and you are actually inspired to practice under their direction. But in the mean time, since this is not the case, you do not need this transmission at all.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:24 pm
How do I even obtain that Ngondro? I don't remember if I received the lung for it either.
Re: New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.
I mean if they are teachings that he recieved during pure vision or if its something that he composed or something in between