New terma and their continuation outside of a lineage.

[Grigoris]

That is a different problem, one the community in the west will in time resolve. We already know that in China there is a Khenpo appointed to continue CHNN's lineage there.

[Grigoris]

I don't understand the title. There is no continuation without a lineage. But by received empowerments and teachings you are already part of the lineage. Of course the lineage will die with the last generation if there is no one qualified in that generation after the originator has passed.

For example: LOTR has his "terma" (for want of a better term), but they do not belong in the Dudjom Tersar, although Rinpoche practices in that lineage.

They are new terma and they are practiced outside of a lineage. When Rinpoche passes into parinirvana the teachings may ot be incorporated into the Dudjom tersar and so...

I don't think that's how it works. A teaching can have its own lineage (teacher --> student --> becomes teacher --> student etc.), it doesn't have to be part of another lineage.

Sorry, I meant to say "outside of an established lineage", but it didn't fit in the title bar.

[pemachophel]

Greg,

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you that a living Teacher with Whom one has a relationship in meat-space is extremely important, at least for many practitioners. (We've been over this issue before on this forum.) However, I'd like to Devil's advocate about terma after the Terton has died. Terma are revealed at a certain place, at a certain time, and to certain individuals. Who's to say that a terma practiced for a single generation (or even by a single person for that matter) hasn't done the job it was intended by Guru Rinpoche to do?

Also, in terms of LOTR's terma in particular, since you feel strongly about their continuity, maybe you're the lineage holder. You just need to ramp up your game a bit.

[Grigoris]

Also, in terms of LOTR's terma in particular, since you feel strongly about their continuity, maybe you're the lineage holder. You just need to ramp up your game a bit.

A bit???!!!

[pueraeternus]

Ah. That explains the trip they made to China even within the first 49 days of his parinirvana.

That is a different problem, one the community in the west will in time resolve. We already know that in China there is a Khenpo appointed to continue CHNN's lineage there.

[jet.urgyen]

i heard a similar insinuation from a lotsawa friend: "idc havn't produced any realized practitioner/instructor in the entire world". when this was said, publicly, i became aware that maybe people think that when a practitioner attains some specific or ultimate realization then will show up and go around giving teachings and alike.

that is very mistaken.

[MiphamFan]

Ah. That explains the trip they made to China even within the first 49 days of his parinirvana.

That is a different problem, one the community in the west will in time resolve. We already know that in China there is a Khenpo appointed to continue CHNN's lineage there.

I don't think so.

This Khenpo is actually in Taiwan. I tried to enquire about more information about his background and his teachings and I am not sure if he really is teaching ChNN's teachings. I don't want to say more in public. If you want more info you can PM me, but anyway, this does not really concern Western practitioners.

[amanitamusc]

Ah. That explains the trip they made to China even within the first 49 days of his parinirvana.

I don't think so.

This Khenpo is actually in Taiwan. I tried to enquire about more information about his background and his teachings and I am not sure if he really is teaching ChNN's teachings. I don't want to say more in public. If you want more info you can PM me, but anyway, this does not really concern Western practitioners.

http://melong.com/retreat-in-chengdu/
http://melong.com/mandarava-sogtig-retr ... he-wangpo/

[Adamantine]

Interesting that this Khenpo dresses in lay clothes. Generally the title Khenpo is reserved for gelongs: those holding the full set of monastic vows. Nowadays many Khenpos who have achieved the title while monks, who later give back their vows (or break them?) maintain the title due to people’s habit of calling them by it. However even the “Khenpo” Zangpo Rinpoche who heads many of the Dudjom tersar centers in Nepal once he took a Chinese khandro, changed his name in official documents and announcements accordingly to Lama Zangpo, or so I heard. Anyone know the story with this Khenpo Yeshe Wangpo?

[pueraeternus]

Ah. That explains the trip they made to China even within the first 49 days of his parinirvana.

I don't think so.

This Khenpo is actually in Taiwan. I tried to enquire about more information about his background and his teachings and I am not sure if he really is teaching ChNN's teachings. I don't want to say more in public. If you want more info you can PM me, but anyway, this does not really concern Western practitioners.

Well, I am based in the west now, so my concern would be how DC here can continue without someone able to give DI.

[pemachophel]

It's my understanding that, in Nyingma, when someone has completed all the coursework and passed the exams for the Khenpo "degree" but they are a layman, not a gelong, they are called Loppon or Acharya (like Loppon Orgyen Tenzin and Acharya Lama Dawa Chodrak).

[Malcolm]

i heard a similar insinuation from a lotsawa friend: "idc havn't produced any realized practitioner/instructor in the entire world".

This person must have amazing clairvoyance to be so confident of their opinion; however, what it actually shows is that they know nothing at all about Dzogchen teachings.

[jet.urgyen]

i heard a similar insinuation from a lotsawa friend: "idc havn't produced any realized practitioner/instructor in the entire world".

This person must have amazing clairvoyance to be so confident of their opinion; however, what it actually shows is that they know nothing at all about Dzogchen teachings.

i agree.

also i'm afraid that he is influenced by his lama. I gathered precautions and also indirect evidence that he secretly used to criticize ChNN.

it is sad that when one examines and scratches a bit and then find such things.

[Tata1]

And this is very excellent.

However, JD's root guru is the late ChNN. There is no reason for him to practice other termas when he can practice the fresh termas of his master from whom he has already received the full and complete transmission. If he wants to practice guru yoga, he can practice the guru yoga of the medium thun. It is no different at all from the guru yoga of Dudjom Tersar, Longchen Nyingthig, etc., in meaning. And there is the ngondro practice in the Longsal teachings, mentioned above. I am just reminding him of this.

You don't really need this. All you need is the medium thun, since you are a DC guy. And if you want to practice a Ngondro, well, there is the Ati Lamgi Ngondro.

How do I even obtain that Ngondro? I don't remember if I received the lung for it either.

CHNN gave this lung frequently. Just look up retreats you gave attended on line, and track down the lung list. I am 100 precent certain you will discover you have received this transmission. Anyway, there is nothing in any Ngondro that is missing from Medium Thun. You really do not need anything beyond the short, medium, and long thun practices. The only reason to do some other Ngondro is if you meet some Lama who insists that you must, and you are actually inspired to practice under their direction. But in the mean time, since this is not the case, you do not need this transmission at all.

Are thun practices considered part of Chnn termas?

[Malcolm]

How do I even obtain that Ngondro? I don't remember if I received the lung for it either.

CHNN gave this lung frequently. Just look up retreats you gave attended on line, and track down the lung list. I am 100 precent certain you will discover you have received this transmission. Anyway, there is nothing in any Ngondro that is missing from Medium Thun. You really do not need anything beyond the short, medium, and long thun practices. The only reason to do some other Ngondro is if you meet some Lama who insists that you must, and you are actually inspired to practice under their direction. But in the mean time, since this is not the case, you do not need this transmission at all.

Are thun practices considered part of Chnn termas?

Depends on what you understand by "terma."

[Tata1]

I mean if they are teachings that he recieved during pure vision or if its something that he composed or something in between