Palyul lamas support Still corrupt Rigpa organization and Sogyal

[Muddywaters]

Palyul lamas are supporting disgraced Sogyal & his STILL corrupt organization Rigpa.

Palyul Khenchen Namdrol taught at Lerab Ling stating that the 8 letter writers denouncing Sogyal's sexual and physical abuse were possessed by demons.

Khenchen Tsewang Gyatso has also started teaching at Rigpa since this scandal and before any real reform within the organization.

No Palyul lamas have made any public statement denouncing Sogyals actions, or Khenchen Namdrol's corruption.

This is a video from within Rigpa of Palyul Khenchen Namdrol's "teaching" at Lerab Ling shaming sexual abuse survivors.
It is shocking to hear.



Please help send this video to any Palyul students.

If Palyul lamas won't denounce sexual abuse, perhaps at least the students and centers won't stand by this?

Here are links to published articles on the situation

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/khenc ... al-ripoche

https://whatnow727.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... to-change/

http://matthewremski.com/wordpress/seni ... d-sources/

https://www.rigpa.org/upcoming-events/2 ... o-rinpoche

[treehuggingoctopus]

Sad beyond words.
Is it Sangye Khandro???

[Könchok Thrinley]

If Palyul lamas won't denounce sexual abuse, perhaps at least the students and centers won't stand by this?

What do you mean by this? You want them to criticise the teachers or push on them to make a statement? Drikung teachers also didn't make a statement should I push on 'em? I find this quite silly to be honest.

[treehuggingoctopus]

If Palyul lamas won't denounce sexual abuse, perhaps at least the students and centers won't stand by this?

What do you mean by this? You want them to criticise the teachers or push on them to make a statement? Drikung teachers also didn't make a statement should I push on 'em? I find this quite silly to be honest.

Well, it is the voice which is the problem and not the silence. Watch the video.

[Grigoris]

I cannot say that I disagree with everything he says. I believe that he makes some valid points as well.

[Lingpupa]

Sad beyond words.
Is it Sangye Khandro???

I have no idea what Sangye Khandro thinks about these issues, but we should be clear that a translator or interpreter (Dharma translator or any other translator) is duty-bound to reproduce the meaning and tone of the original as closely as may be possible under the circumstances, and is duty-bound, as far as possible, to remove their own personal attitudes from the equation. It may be appropriate for a translator or interpreter to decline a request to interpret if it is clear in advance that the things that will be said are things that the interpreter finds objectionable. But, having agreed to do a job and indeed started doing it, I think it would be wrong for an interpreter to stand up in the middle of proceedings and decline to continue. At the very least, this would be an extremely radical and provocative act. An interpreter's attitude is, or should be, as a matter of principle, one of holding back from any personal judgements, be they positive or negative.

The fact that she acted as interpreter here is no reason to make any judgement.

[treehuggingoctopus]

Sad beyond words.
Is it Sangye Khandro???

I have no idea what Sangye Khandro thinks about these issues, but we should be clear that a translator or interpreter (Dharma translator or any other translator) is duty-bound to reproduce the meaning and tone of the original as closely as may be possible under the circumstances, and is duty-bound, as far as possible, to remove their own personal attitudes from the equation. It may be appropriate for a translator or interpreter to decline a request to interpret if it is clear in advance that the things that will be said are things that the interpreter finds objectionable. But, having agreed to do a job and indeed started doing it, I think it would be wrong for an interpreter to stand up in the middle of proceedings and decline to continue. At the very least, this would be an extremely radical and provocative act. An interpreter's attitude is, or should be, as a matter of principle, one of holding back from any personal judgements, be they positive or negative.

The fact that she acted as interpreter here is no reason to make any judgement.

I am not critising her. She looks mortified.

[PeterC]

Isn't this video over a year old? Or am I having a sudden attack of deja vu?

[Mantrik]

I cannot say that I disagree with everything he says. I believe that he makes some valid points as well.

Much of what was said is the same as is used in a certain cult which shall not be named. We must not criticise the Guru or senior monks or we will damage people's faith in the Dharma etc etc.
Oddly, I find it is easy to disagree with profoundly Dharmic expressions when they are being used to justify such actions. Context matters in the utterance of holy platitudes in what they now term 'victim shaming'.

[Natan]

You don’t know KN and don’t get what he’s saying. The author of this article sounds like a reporter writing about something completely foreign, and sounds like someone who’s never been around vajrayana.

But hey, gives you more reason to invent an all-white lineage, which what all these internet raconteurs hope and dream about, leading an internet army of devoted iPhone holders, after having worked out the loopholes that explain away why NO LAMA supports any of this BS.

Chatral Rinpoche basically told Dudjom Yangsi not to worry too much about the West. This is why. You guru shamers are the enemies of the doctrine.

I’m telling you you are. That has consequences. Demons will tear your mind apart. You’ve been warned.

Look what he said: we must apply the teachings. If you disagree with that your religion is law and your lamas are the police. What a bunch ninnies.

[Natan]

Palyul lamas are supporting disgraced Sogyal & his STILL corrupt organization Rigpa.

Palyul Khenchen Namdrol taught at Lerab Ling stating that the 8 letter writers denouncing Sogyal's sexual and physical abuse were possessed by demons.

Khenchen Tsewang Gyatso has also started teaching at Rigpa since this scandal and before any real reform within the organization.

No Palyul lamas have made any public statement denouncing Sogyals actions, or Khenchen Namdrol's corruption.

This is a video from within Rigpa of Palyul Khenchen Namdrol's "teaching" at Lerab Ling shaming sexual abuse survivors.
It is shocking to hear.



Please help send this video to any Palyul students.

If Palyul lamas won't denounce sexual abuse, perhaps at least the students and centers won't stand by this?

Here are links to published articles on the situation

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/khenc ... al-ripoche

https://whatnow727.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... to-change/

http://matthewremski.com/wordpress/seni ... d-sources/

https://www.rigpa.org/upcoming-events/2 ... o-rinpoche

These articles are stupid. Completely ignorant of dharma.

People on this site are completely bashing and not only, also misrepresenting KN, his transmissions, the lineage and the Buddha Samantabhadra.

You are the cutoff lineage. You’re worse than nihilists. Even some of them accept karma a little bit.

Well, since you don’t believe in demons or lineages you won’t mind going into my wrathful Activities. Please PM me your full name and I’ll send you a location to send me something with your scent on it. I’ll fix those delusions of yours right up.

[treehuggingoctopus]

But hey, gives you more reason to invent an all-white lineage, which what all these internet raconteurs hope and dream about, leading an internet army of devoted iPhone holders, after having worked out the loopholes that explain away why NO LAMA supports any of this BS.

I have yet to see one single Buddhist who would want an all-white lineage. In Europe being white is frankly the worst thing that could befall a teacher: being white is seen as the final and unequivocal proof that one is not a teacher who could teach one anything useful, or really transmit any practice.

[Grigoris]

Much of what was said is the same as is used in a certain cult which shall not be named. We must not criticise the Guru or senior monks or we will damage people's faith in the Dharma etc etc.
Oddly, I find it is easy to disagree with profoundly Dharmic expressions when they are being used to justify such actions. Context matters in the utterance of holy platitudes in what they now term 'victim shaming'.

I understand what you are saying and some of what he is saying would ring alarm bells, I am sure.

It is also true that that a lot of the talk is damaging the reputation of the Sangha and Dharma teachings in general. I am sure you know a number of people that have been turned off from Buddhism because of these issues. That does not mean the issues should not be dealt with, nor that they are excusable, but I think we need to look at how we are dealing with them.

Personally I have abandoned noisy protest as a tool. Generally speaking: I believe it achieves very little.

[Natan]

But hey, gives you more reason to invent an all-white lineage, which what all these internet raconteurs hope and dream about, leading an internet army of devoted iPhone holders, after having worked out the loopholes that explain away why NO LAMA supports any of this BS.

I have yet to see one single Buddhist who would want an all-white lineage. In Europe being white is frankly the worst thing that could befall a teacher: being white is seen as the final and unequivocal proof that one is not a teacher who could teach one anything useful, or really transmit any practice.

Well it’s about to lama free. But hey there’s always the internet guru and his attendant, Amazon.

[PeterC]

There really isn’t much to discuss in these matters. There are some who say, this person has done things that show him to be unqualified as a guru. Others say, I have samaya with the person so he will always be my guru. There really is little ground for dialog between the two. One follows the person in whom one has confidence.

My hope for 2019: more Dharma, less drama.

[Könchok Thrinley]

I have yet to see one single Buddhist who would want an all-white lineage. In Europe being white is frankly the worst thing that could befall a teacher: being white is seen as the final and unequivocal proof that one is not a teacher who could teach one anything useful, or really transmit any practice.

Heh, unfortunately you are right. It does disqualify quite a bit in Europe. And I can see it clearly in my own attitude how I look with more distrust on white teachers. But it might be partly because of US zen centers where everybody is roshi, however for some reason the teachings seem more and more disconnected from buddhadharma. However, that is for different discussion.

Now to our little discussion.
Yes, the video is sad in some places. I'd expect more neutral answer and not calling them demons. However, the video is old and has already been discussed a year and a half ago. What bothers me more is the way in which the OP wrote their post. It reminds me of the attempt to make teachers adress sexual misconduct that happened few months ago, where there was a list of teachers and was about making them release a statement. I think that is stupid and totally not needed. These matters should be between a student and teacher and possibly policy if law had been broken. I'd suggest and interview with the teacher from the video on the matter and discuss it if his views are the same and what are his intentions and thoughts behind his statements. Why he thinks so, etc. We have to talk to our teachers not make lists or push them into making statements.

[Könchok Thrinley]

There really isn’t much to discuss in these matters. There are some who say, this person has done things that show him to be unqualified as a guru. Others say, I have samaya with the person so he will always be my guru. There really is little ground for dialog between the two. One follows the person in whom one has confidence.

My hope for 2019: more Dharma, less drama.

Preach!

[Grigoris]

Given the age of this video, that this issue has been discussed to death and that the original poster basically "farted and left the room" I am locking this thread until the OP comes back in order to discuss the issue properly (if they ever do).