Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

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zenman
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Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Post by zenman » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:22 pm

It is crazy how expensive Tara Mandala is, even for locals, not to mention people from overseas.

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:28 am

That's really not all that expensive for something like eight full days of teaching, etc.

What are you comparing it to?
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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Adamantine » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:32 am

They may be open to work-study arrangements if you’re willing to do a little work while you’re there. Most places are. Don’t forget, three meals a day are likely included in that fee.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by zenman » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:34 pm

The cheapest option in the chart is 990 usd, incl. everything. That's thousand dollars for 8 days of camping, bringing one's own tent and bedding. 630 dollards for bringing one's own tent! Seriously? How can they ask so much money? And this is the cheapest option. It's bonkers.

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by clinno108 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:32 pm

Hi Zenman,

This is Clinton, Communications Manager at Tara Mandala. Thank you for the post. We do indeed offer a work-exchange, for 50% off the retreat, and you can always apply for a Scholarship, or other Financial Assistance, to have some, to all, of the retreat paid for.

For more information, please see our "Extended Karma Yoga Program" at this link:
https://www.taramandala.org/the-center/ ... a-program/

And Scholarships/Financial Assistance at:
https://www.taramandala.org/the-center/ ... ssistance/

Regards,
Clinton

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Adamantine » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:21 pm

clinno108 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:32 pm
Hi Zenman,

This is Clinton, Communications Manager at Tara Mandala. Thank you for the post. We do indeed offer a work-exchange, for 50% off the retreat, and you can always apply for a Scholarship, or other Financial Assistance, to have some, to all, of the retreat paid for.

For more information, please see our "Extended Karma Yoga Program" at this link:
https://www.taramandala.org/the-center/ ... a-program/

And Scholarships/Financial Assistance at:
https://www.taramandala.org/the-center/ ... ssistance/

Regards,
Clinton
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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Adamantine » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:22 pm

zenman wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:34 pm
The cheapest option in the chart is 990 usd, incl. everything. That's thousand dollars for 8 days of camping, bringing one's own tent and bedding. 630 dollards for bringing one's own tent! Seriously? How can they ask so much money? And this is the cheapest option. It's bonkers.
I believe you’re including the “suggested teaching gift” which is according to your capacity, not a set fee. I’m sure if I’m wrong Clinton will correct me.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:33 pm

zenman wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:34 pm
The cheapest option in the chart is 990 usd, incl. everything. That's thousand dollars for 8 days of camping, bringing one's own tent and bedding. 630 dollards for bringing one's own tent! Seriously? How can they ask so much money? And this is the cheapest option. It's bonkers.
This shouldn't need to be explained, but it is 8 days of teachings, not just lodging. Basically, you are paying a little more than $100 per day with the camping option. Many day long teaching events (non overnight) run $100 or more. So again, while it's not cheap, I don't really understand what you're trying to compate it to, or whether you even have anything to compare it to.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by zenman » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:39 pm

I'm comparing it to dharma events and retreats in Europe. I don't know if the price range of this retretat at Tara Mandala reflects the general price range of dharma events in US but if I think of any events I'm aware of in Europe it's pretty much double or more the price. Good that there are options for those who cannot afford but still, it is expensive.

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Adamantine » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:41 pm

Also, some people manage to secure funding for their aspirations to attend teaching-retreats, group-practice retreats, or solitary practice-retreats via the offering-bowl website. https://www.theofferingbowl.com/terms-of-use
Although Zenman...do you even have the prerequisites for attending this retreat, or are you just complaining for fun?
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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by zenman » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:57 pm

Reality checking for fun, yes.

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:58 pm

zenman wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:39 pm
I'm comparing it to dharma events and retreats in Europe. I don't know if the price range of this retretat at Tara Mandala reflects the general price range of dharma events in US but if I think of any events I'm aware of in Europe it's pretty much double or more the price. Good that there are options for those who cannot afford but still, it is expensive.
What sort of retreats? What sort of events? IME $100 for a day worth of stuff is just what it takes just for the organisers to break even. So I'm curious, other than large, general talks, or Goenka Vipassanna retreats, what sort of events are you talking about?

Other eight day Vajrayana teachings?

Because if so you are saying that there are other 8 day teachings for half this price - like $400 or $500...that strikes me as pretty cheap, especially if they involve lodging...wonderful if available, but maybe not a realistic expectation.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by zenman » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:07 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:58 pm

What sort of retreats? What sort of events? IME $100 for a day worth of stuff is just what it takes just for the organisers to break even. So I'm curious, other than large, general talks, or Goenka Vipassanna retreats, what sort of events are you talking about?

Other eight day Vajrayana teachings?
The same context, so yes, vajrayana but I realise I was exaggerating the amount of difference. Notably cheaper anyway.

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Adamantine » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:07 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:58 pm
zenman wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:39 pm
I'm comparing it to dharma events and retreats in Europe. I don't know if the price range of this retretat at Tara Mandala reflects the general price range of dharma events in US but if I think of any events I'm aware of in Europe it's pretty much double or more the price. Good that there are options for those who cannot afford but still, it is expensive.
What sort of retreats? What sort of events? IME $100 for a day worth of stuff is just what it takes just for the organisers to break even. So I'm curious, other than large, general talks, or Goenka Vipassanna retreats, what sort of events are you talking about?

Other eight day Vajrayana teachings?
Doubtful, unless the conduct has been imported from Asia where wealthy sponsors cover all the costs for teachings or Wangs making it free for everyone else: including meals. This is a great tradition, which I wish would catch on more here in the US. Perhaps citizens of European countries with more socialist influence have found this easier to adopt?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by zenman » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:25 pm

Actually no, the differences are huge.

These are prices for Tsoknyi Rinpoche's 6 day retreat:
Retreat fee for 6 days: £250.00 = 328.67 usd
Single room, shared bathroom: £400.00. Total: £650.0 = 854.53 usd
Twin, shared bathroom, per person: £260.00. Total: £510.00 = 670.48 usd
Dorm, per person: £200.00. Total: £450.00 = 591.60 usd
Offsite: Meals only package: £100.00. Total: £350.00
Offsite no meals: Total: £250.00

If one took the most expensive option single room and counts the price for 8 days, it adds up to 1138 usd. Single room price in Tara Mandala is 1800 usd plus dana. That 30% more.

Other sangha that I go to offers weeklong vajrayana retreats where everyone gets own room with bath room, teachings and meals for 631.04 usd. That's third of the price compared to Tara Mandala.

I don't mean to point fingers but looking at dharma events in the States I have thought that the prices are much higher. Do people earn more? I don't have that impression.

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Norwegian » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:31 pm

zenman wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:25 pm
Actually no, the differences are huge.

These are prices for Tsoknyi Rinpoche's 6 day retreat:
Retreat fee for 6 days: £250.00 = 328.67 usd
Single room, shared bathroom: £400.00. Total: £650.0 = 854.53 usd
Twin, shared bathroom, per person: £260.00. Total: £510.00 = 670.48 usd
Dorm, per person: £200.00. Total: £450.00 = 591.60 usd
Offsite: Meals only package: £100.00. Total: £350.00
Offsite no meals: Total: £250.00

If one took the most expensive option single room and counts the price for 8 days, it adds up to 1138 usd. Single room price in Tara Mandala is 1800 usd plus dana. That 30% more.

Other sangha that I go to offers weeklong vajrayana retreats where everyone gets own room with bath room, teachings and meals for 631.04 usd. That's third of the price compared to Tara Mandala.

I don't mean to point fingers but looking at dharma events in the States I have thought that the prices are much higher. Do people earn more? I don't have that impression.
You have no idea what the expenses are, that Tara Mandala needs to cover, etc. There's literally no way of comparing really.

Last retreat I participated in, had me travel from Norway to Tenerife (Dzamling Gar, with Chogyal Namkhai Norbu). That meant updating my passport, getting travel insurance, renting an apartment in Tenerife via Airbnb as hotel was too expensive, getting flight tickets, having money for food and possibly taxi, etc. as well as money for the retreat itself, etc.

I planned well over half a year in advance, including setting aside money, and so on. It was more than twice the price for this Tara Mandala retreat. And it was perfectly doable. And not to mention priceless beyond compare. There are no words that can do justice to how it all was. So it was certainly worth it.

Tara Mandala also have a work-exchange program as well, which is quite nice for those who are willing to do that. So I don't really see the problem.
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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:59 pm

It's fantastic that Tsoknyi Rinpoche is able to offer retreat at that price, phenomenal in fact. I would not expect that price as a standard though, that is on the low end.

I have helped organize small scale retreats where we would have operated at a significant loss charging something like that - even going as cheap as we could with everything.

So it's awesome that there is some mechanism making it possible to do retreat that is so inexpensive, but it seems unreasonable to expect it as a standard.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

zenman
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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by zenman » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:21 pm

Personally I could afford going to Tara Mandala or place like that but that would be once or max twice a year. With lower rates I can join a retreat almost every month.

More examples:
4 day retreat with James Low, incl. meals, camping and teachings: 180BP/236.64 usd
14 days with Keith Dowman in Spain, incl. meals, room and teachings: 800€/1 051.73 usd.

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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:38 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:59 pm
It's fantastic that Tsoknyi Rinpoche is able to offer retreat at that price, phenomenal in fact. I would not expect that price as a standard though, that is on the low end.

I have helped organize small scale retreats where we would have operated at a significant loss charging something like that - even going as cheap as we could with everything.

So it's awesome that there is some mechanism making it possible to do retreat that is so inexpensive, but it seems unreasonable to expect it as a standard.
In Western Europe it is the standard, pretty much. Maybe even a bit on the expensivish side.

Eastern Europe will be considerably cheaper. A week-long retreat with TWR in Wilga in Poland is about 200-300 Euros, all (accommodation, 3 meals a day, retreat costs) included. Fully-packed schedule, including three sessions a day with Rinpoche. Have a look here:

http://www.ligmincha.pl/en/events-and-s ... poche.html
http://www.ligmincha.pl/en/events-and-s ... poche.html
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Re: Simhamukha Retreat @ Tara Mandala, May 19-27

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:53 pm

Interesting. I can honestly say that for that length of teachings in the US, the Tara Mandala prices seem slightly steep, but not unusual to me.

As I said, organizing anything here that involves lodging and food is an expensive thing, $100 dollars a day for stuff is not unusual at all, and at least with the small amount I've been involved in organizing, merely allows a break-even scenario. I had no idea about the price difference.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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