Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

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Mantrik
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Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Mantrik » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:08 am

I'm trying to track down which Mahakala is given as part of the Jewel Garland of 50 Deities. I've asked around Drikung Kagyu, as it was given by Garchen Rinpoche and it is thought to have been a two-armed Mahakala. GR gave it as a separate empowerment on Sept 2016 in Germany. I've asked the centre and the Institute etc. but no response.

Any additional information, please? (I don't read Tibetan.)

PM will be fine. I have the transmission and the mantra from 2016 but would like more information and a sadhana, if one exists.

Thanks.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Miroku » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:15 am

Mantrik wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:08 am
I'm trying to track down which Mahakala is given as part of the Jewel Garland of 50 Deities. I've asked around Drikung Kagyu, as it was given by Garchen Rinpoche and it is thought to have been a two-armed Mahakala. GR gave it as a separate empowerment on Sept 2016 in Germany. I've asked the centre and the Institute etc. but no response.

Any additional information, please? (I don't read Tibetan.)

PM will be fine. I have the transmission and the mantra from 2016 but would like more information and a sadhana, if one exists.

Thanks.
Hi,

you might find the answer here https://milareparetreat.org/index.php/e ... lenkette-2 but there it says just mahakala... unless there is another one. Have you tried writing to the Milarepa Retreat Center? I could be theoretically able to find it out but it could take weeks as a friend has access to the text of the 50 deities garland.

Maybe you could ask at the Drikung Kagyu Foundation http://www.drikungkagyufoundation.org/fiftydeities/ as there was the empowerment too.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Mantrik » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:17 am

Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:15 am
Mantrik wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:08 am
I'm trying to track down which Mahakala is given as part of the Jewel Garland of 50 Deities. I've asked around Drikung Kagyu, as it was given by Garchen Rinpoche and it is thought to have been a two-armed Mahakala. GR gave it as a separate empowerment on Sept 2016 in Germany. I've asked the centre and the Institute etc. but no response.

Any additional information, please? (I don't read Tibetan.)

PM will be fine. I have the transmission and the mantra from 2016 but would like more information and a sadhana, if one exists.

Thanks.
Hi,

you might find the answer here https://milareparetreat.org/index.php/e ... lenkette-2 but there it says just mahakala... unless there is another one. Have you tried writing to the Milarepa Retreat Center? I could be theoretically able to find it out but it could take weeks as a friend has access to the text of the 50 deities garland.

Maybe you could ask at the Drikung Kagyu Foundation http://www.drikungkagyufoundation.org/fiftydeities/ as there was the empowerment too.
Thanks, yes, I found those sources but there is no detail, and I've asked the various centres etc.
I'll ask the Foundation again.

Any info would be very welcome, thanks. :)
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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ratna
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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by ratna » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:39 am

The Mahākāla in the Jewel Garland is the two-armed form holding a curved knife and skull-cup. Texts in the collection don't give a specific name to his form -- he's just called "Mahākāla" and is said to come from the Cakrasaṃvara. As with other Sarma deities in the collection, the lineage originally comes from Abhayākāragupta.

R
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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Mantrik » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:47 pm

ratna wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:39 am
The Mahākāla in the Jewel Garland is the two-armed form holding a curved knife and skull-cup. Texts in the collection don't give a specific name to his form -- he's just called "Mahākāla" and is said to come from the Cakrasaṃvara. As with other Sarma deities in the collection, the lineage originally comes from Abhayākāragupta.

R
Ah, thank you. :)

Yes, all the details I found just said 'Mahakala'. Confusingly, the Drikung advert for the empowerment stated Bernagchen.

I'll see what I can find by way of image etc. :)
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:35 pm

I think I found him.

Karatidhara Mahakala is from the Kalachakra Tantra.

https://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=422
366.jpg
366.jpg (122.93 KiB) Viewed 867 times
This particular image is from a Kadam lineage but...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Mantrik » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:32 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:35 pm
I think I found him.

Karatidhara Mahakala is from the Kalachakra Tantra.

https://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=422

366.jpg

This particular image is from a Kadam lineage but...
Good find. :)
Dug around a bit on there and found this oen which is Kagyu too:
Image
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Miroku » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:14 pm

Don't wanna spoil it or cause uncertainty but what my friend told me was that the mahakala is a "classical kagyu 4 armed wrathful mahakala". :D But dunno. Anyway best of luck Mantrik, I have noticed this is like your 3rd try to find it.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Mantrik » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:36 pm

Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:14 pm
Don't wanna spoil it or cause uncertainty but what my friend told me was that the mahakala is a "classical kagyu 4 armed wrathful mahakala". :D But dunno. Anyway best of luck Mantrik, I have noticed this is like your 3rd try to find it.
Thanks for asking him. He may well be correct!

It would make it easy if it was the normal 4 armed one he gave on 18th Sept 2016. I didn't question what was given in the centre's blurb - which was Bernagchen!

To be absolutely sure I probably need Ina (the translator) or someone else who was there at the time.

If I compromise and use a 3 armed Mahakala with one Hum less in the mantra that should fix it! :)
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:41 pm

Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:14 pm
Don't wanna spoil it or cause uncertainty but what my friend told me was that the mahakala is a "classical kagyu 4 armed wrathful mahakala". :D But dunno. Anyway best of luck Mantrik, I have noticed this is like your 3rd try to find it.
https://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=421
Chaturbhuja.jpg
Chaturbhuja.jpg (101.78 KiB) Viewed 808 times
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Mantrik » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:53 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:41 pm
Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:14 pm
Don't wanna spoil it or cause uncertainty but what my friend told me was that the mahakala is a "classical kagyu 4 armed wrathful mahakala". :D But dunno. Anyway best of luck Mantrik, I have noticed this is like your 3rd try to find it.
https://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=421

Chaturbhuja.jpg
That's the normal guy, for sure. Someone in the Drikung Group on FB was very precise, though, about the Mahakala given in the 50, and also at the event I quoted, is a rare two-armed version with a mantra which is definitely not Bernagchen's.
''given in Gar Drolma during 13 of 50 empowerments and in Munich Germany in special event of Guru Rinpoches fire monkey year''.

But nobody seems to remember full details.

I'm not short of Mahakalas, as it were, having transmission for 6-armed and for Maning, but it would be nice to know, especially as a Yidam empowerment.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Miroku » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:22 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:36 pm
Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:14 pm
Don't wanna spoil it or cause uncertainty but what my friend told me was that the mahakala is a "classical kagyu 4 armed wrathful mahakala". :D But dunno. Anyway best of luck Mantrik, I have noticed this is like your 3rd try to find it.
Thanks for asking him. He may well be correct!

It would make it easy if it was the normal 4 armed one he gave on 18th Sept 2016. I didn't question what was given in the centre's blurb - which was Bernagchen!

To be absolutely sure I probably need Ina (the translator) or someone else who was there at the time.

If I compromise and use a 3 armed Mahakala with one Hum less in the mantra that should fix it! :)
Hah yes, :) I think enlightened being can appreciate a good compromise. ;) The one posted by Grigoris seem to be the right one based on the source and lineage.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by ratna » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:03 am

Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:22 pm
Hah yes, :) I think enlightened being can appreciate a good compromise. ;) The one posted by Grigoris seem to be the right one based on the source and lineage.
In terms of iconography, yes, but not lineage -- the one in Drikung is said to come specifically from Cakrasaṃvara Tantra.

This is the tsakli for the empowerment in the Jewel Garland:
Tsakley 50.jpg
Tsakley 50.jpg (124.38 KiB) Viewed 737 times
R
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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Miroku » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:53 am

ratna wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:03 am
Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:22 pm
Hah yes, :) I think enlightened being can appreciate a good compromise. ;) The one posted by Grigoris seem to be the right one based on the source and lineage.
In terms of iconography, yes, but not lineage -- the one in Drikung is said to come specifically from Cakrasaṃvara Tantra.

This is the tsakli for the empowerment in the Jewel Garland:

Tsakley 50.jpg

R
Oh I see, thank you ratna! :thumbsup:
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:06 am

ratna wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:03 am
In terms of iconography, yes, but not lineage -- the one in Drikung is said to come specifically from Cakrasaṃvara Tantra.
Ooooopsss, wrong tantra! :smile:

On the other hand, iconographers do not necessarily practice in the same lineage that the tangkha images originate from. Many times they are commissioned and given a description.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by Mantrik » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:22 am

ratna wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:03 am
Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:22 pm
Hah yes, :) I think enlightened being can appreciate a good compromise. ;) The one posted by Grigoris seem to be the right one based on the source and lineage.
In terms of iconography, yes, but not lineage -- the one in Drikung is said to come specifically from Cakrasaṃvara Tantra.

This is the tsakli for the empowerment in the Jewel Garland:

Tsakley 50.jpg

R
Excellent. Thank you. :)
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by conebeckham » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:07 pm

ratna wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:03 am
Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:22 pm
Hah yes, :) I think enlightened being can appreciate a good compromise. ;) The one posted by Grigoris seem to be the right one based on the source and lineage.
In terms of iconography, yes, but not lineage -- the one in Drikung is said to come specifically from Cakrasaṃvara Tantra.

This is the tsakli for the empowerment in the Jewel Garland:

Tsakley 50.jpg

R
Do you perchance have a link to the Jewel Garland text on TBRC?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by ratna » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:05 pm

Don't touch me while I'm tantric.

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Re: Jewel Garland - Which Mahakala?

Post by conebeckham » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:26 pm

Thanks, Ratna.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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