Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

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如傑優婆塞
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by 如傑優婆塞 » Wed May 08, 2019 1:00 pm

And to add on to the OP posting, as recent as last month (one may look at the date of the FB posting provided below), a Malaysian Tibetan Buddhist centre, Losang Dragpa Center (an affiliate of FPMT) posted a pinned event that features Dagri Rinpoche as an invited Dharma host for their Vesak Day based schedule and then about a day ago, their FB page was inundated with accusatory comments that aren't visible now with LDC issuing an interim statement:

We notice there has been comments and discussion on an accusation against H.E Dagri Rinpoche. As a dharma centre, we take the comments seriously and would investigate further and announce our stand in a statement later. LDC is devoted to the transmission of the Mahayana Buddhist tradition and values through teaching, meditation and community service.

May the legal due process & justice prevail :anjali:

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Miroku
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Miroku » Wed May 08, 2019 2:08 pm

This is just sad. What more it will put a very bad press on FPMT which can easily be called one of the best organizations of such a type in the west. Really just sad.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
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Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
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smcj
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by smcj » Wed May 08, 2019 2:36 pm

These guys need to give up on celibacy, get a Tinder app, & learn to keep their hands off the congregation—even if she initiated it. That’s the simplest answer to all these lama dramas.
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that, through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed May 08, 2019 5:50 pm

being monk is a serious thing, breaking vows might lead to misfortune states such as being a minor demon.

Btw, "Rinpoche" title is becoming a double edged sword as people are not precaucious.

smcj
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by smcj » Wed May 08, 2019 5:59 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:50 pm
being monk is a serious thing, breaking vows might lead to misfortune states such as being a minor demon.

Btw, "Rinpoche" title is becoming a double edged sword as people are not precaucious.
“Monk” means celibate. “Rinpoche” does not.

For anyone that has preconceived notions about what the rinpoche title means I suggest they watch Gesar Mukpo’s documentary “Tulku”. It’s quite an eye-opener.
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that, through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed May 08, 2019 6:05 pm

smcj wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:59 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:50 pm
being monk is a serious thing, breaking vows might lead to misfortune states such as being a minor demon.

Btw, "Rinpoche" title is becoming a double edged sword as people are not precaucious.
“Monk” means celibate. “Rinpoche” does not.

For anyone that has preconceived notions about what the rinpoche title means I suggest they watch Gesar Mukpo’s documentary “Tulku”. It’s quite an eye-opener.
this person seems to be a monk.

zerwe
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by zerwe » Wed May 08, 2019 6:13 pm

Ugh. Whole range of emotions here from sadness to real distress. One center that is hosting Dagri Rinpoche
have posted (what would seem to be an alternate explanation) for why Dagri Rinpoche will be delayed in his schedule. I have been a FPMT practitioner/supporter for ten years and I want to see the organization do the right thing. These allegations seem credible and I don't know what to expect going forward.

Shaun :cry:

smcj
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by smcj » Wed May 08, 2019 6:29 pm

Monk” means celibate. “Rinpoche” does not.

For anyone that has preconceived notions about what the rinpoche title means I suggest they watch Gesar Mukpo’s documentary “Tulku”. It’s quite an eye-opener.
this person seems to be a monk.
What makes you think so? I live with monks, nuns, and people that wear “lay robes”. The difference in clothing comes down to how the skirt is folded. I still have to look twice to see the difference.

In this case it’s a moot point. She was a nun at the time. It’s a major no-no to seduce a nun. Plus in the #me-too era any clergy/congregant sex is classified as abuse if the congregant complains. That’s true even if the congregant initiates it and willingly participated for years. After it’s over, if they complain, it is abuse. The clergy is charged with having a “fiduciary responsibility” to make sure it doesn’t happen. The clergy alone is responsible regardless of any specifics in the relationship.

At least that’s the position of “An Olive Branch”, which has been involved with the Lama Norlha R, Sogyal R, and Sakya Mipham R scandals.

Like I said, get a Tinder app.
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that, through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed May 08, 2019 6:31 pm

smcj wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:36 pm
These guys need to give up on celibacy, get a Tinder app, & learn to keep their hands off the congregation—even if she initiated it. That’s the simplest answer to all these lama dramas.
These kinds of things happen all the time with men in powerful positions, they aren't unique to Vajrayana or even religion generally. Celibacy is not a requirement for them to happen either, obviously. lack of respect for the autonomy and dignity of women is the problem, not celibacy or some particular religious setup.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed May 08, 2019 6:42 pm

smcj wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:29 pm
Monk” means celibate. “Rinpoche” does not.

For anyone that has preconceived notions about what the rinpoche title means I suggest they watch Gesar Mukpo’s documentary “Tulku”. It’s quite an eye-opener.
this person seems to be a monk.
What makes you think so? I live with monks, nuns, and people that wear “lay robes”. The difference in clothing comes down to how the skirt is folded. I still have to look twice to see the difference.

In this case it’s a moot point. She was a nun at the time. It’s a major no-no to seduce a nun. Plus in the #me-too era any clergy/congregant sex is classified as abuse if the congregant complains. That’s true even if the congregant initiates it and willingly participated for years. After it’s over, if they complain, it is abuse. The clergy is charged with having a “fiduciary responsibility” to make sure it doesn’t happen. The clergy alone is responsible regardless of any specifics in the relationship.

At least that’s the position of “An Olive Branch”, which has been involved with the Lama Norlha R, Sogyal R, and Sakya Mipham R scandals.

Like I said, get a Tinder app.
i think so because of his robes. if a lay person wears monk's robes, that isn't good at all, that's deceiving.

i don't blame a priori, we should see how this news develops.

smcj
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by smcj » Wed May 08, 2019 7:29 pm

I think so because of his robes. if a lay person wears monk's robes, that isn't good at all, that's deceiving.
Con you tell the difference between monk’s robes and “lay robes”?
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that, through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Nemo
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Nemo » Wed May 08, 2019 7:32 pm

Dharma As A Business(DAAB) is the new model. but sexual exploitation is widespread and wrecking the brand. If that gets wrecked the business is dead. There is lots of room for Tantric magicians and yogis, even ones who practice sexual tantra. Daoists have done this for millennia. Having their cake and eating it too is not working. You can't be a monastic(to take donations) and be sexually active. Creepy unattractive midgets need to stop using rank in a hierarchy and psychological manipulation to get laid. They are so common Tibetan Buddhism is looking like a scam. It makes me wonder how "enlightened" these individuals are if they are so desperate to get laid they cannot even be discrete.

It's sad these teachers did not admit who they were. Many years ago my Teacher asked after a decent retreat if I thought I could teach meditation since I had passed certain tests. I had to answer him honestly. "No Rinpoche, I would bang all my students."

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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Bristollad » Wed May 08, 2019 8:02 pm

smcj wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:29 pm
I think so because of his robes. if a lay person wears monk's robes, that isn't good at all, that's deceiving.
Con you tell the difference between monk’s robes and “lay robes”?
Dagri Rinpoche is a monk and was my ordination master when I took novice vows. He was one of the 10 fullly ordained monks that are required to be present for the recent ordinations given in McLeod Ganj by His Holiness.

His Holiness always suggests that lay teachers should not wear clothing that might make someone think they are ordained when they are not. The young Serkong Rinpoche is a good example of a suitable approach in that regard:
Image

Underneath this, he normally wears a shirt and jeans.
Last edited by Bristollad on Wed May 08, 2019 8:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

smcj
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by smcj » Wed May 08, 2019 8:04 pm

You can't be a monastic(to take donations) and be sexually active.
I’m going to guess you’re not a Nyingmapa.
Creepy unattractive midgets need to stop using rank in a hierarchy and psychological manipulation to get laid.
What say you to all the happy marriages between lamas and their students? A blanket condemnation of them too? Of course not.

Bottom line is it’s too complicated and messy to sort things out on a case by case basis. So the new rule has to be; don’t touch the students. It simply isn’t manageable any other way.

Like I said, have them give back their vows, get a Tinder app, & tell them to stay away from their students.

Simple.
Last edited by smcj on Wed May 08, 2019 8:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that, through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

Bristollad
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Bristollad » Wed May 08, 2019 8:11 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:32 pm
Creepy unattractive midgets
You have someone particular in mind? Most Tibetan monks I've met are taller than me including Dagri Rinpoche and I've never been called a midget. Short maybe, but not a midget (I'm around 5'8" in the morning and 5'7" by nightfall :tongue: ).

zerwe
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by zerwe » Wed May 08, 2019 8:23 pm

zerwe wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:13 pm
Ugh. Whole range of emotions here from sadness to real distress. One center that is hosting Dagri Rinpoche
have posted (what would seem to be an alternate explanation) for why Dagri Rinpoche will be delayed in his schedule. I have been a FPMT practitioner/supporter for ten years and I want to see the organization do the right thing. These allegations seem credible and I don't know what to expect going forward.

Shaun :cry:
My mistake. Land of Joy's announcement regarding their programme with Dagri Rinpoche was posted on April, 1. However, it does sound as though some centers have had the opportunity to speak up and have not at this time. If the accusations are indeed credible this is disappointing.
Shaun

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Nemo
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Nemo » Wed May 08, 2019 9:55 pm

smcj wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:04 pm
You can't be a monastic(to take donations) and be sexually active.
I’m going to guess you’re not a Nyingmapa.
Creepy unattractive midgets need to stop using rank in a hierarchy and psychological manipulation to get laid.
What say you to all the happy marriages between lamas and their students? A blanket condemnation of them too? Of course not.

Bottom line is it’s too complicated and messy to sort things out on a case by case basis. So the new rule has to be; don’t touch the students. It simply isn’t manageable any other way.

Like I said, have them give back their vows, get a Tinder app, & tell them to stay away from their students.

Simple.
My point is simply about being a hypocrite. Don't pretend to be a monk and carelessly bang randoms on the side. Especially if it seems you only want to publicly have vows to make a living. I know a few Lama marriages full of infidelity, betrayal and anger as well. The problem is using rank and psychological manipulation. Generally by the dudes who never had game to begin with. A young consort is wonderful for your health and practice. A truly monumental blessing. One that needs respect, enthusiastic consent and discretion. A good consort can easily prolong the life of a teacher by decades even.

Telling girls to lay on the floor or bend over is not foreplay. Tricks like locking them alone in rooms and invading their personal space, threats, manipulation, lying, etc, etc,... The deluge of creepy behavior coming out lately is severely damaging the Dharma. We will become a joke like Catholic priests.

smcj
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by smcj » Wed May 08, 2019 10:12 pm

My point is simply about being a hypocrite. Don't pretend to be a monk and carelessly bang randoms on the side. Especially if it seems you only want to publicly have vows to make a living. I know a few Lama marriages full of infidelity, betrayal and anger as well. The problem is using rank and psychological manipulation. Generally by the dudes who never had game to begin with. A young consort is wonderful for your health and practice. A truly monumental blessing. One that needs respect, enthusiastic consent and discretion. A good consort can easily prolong the life of a teacher by decades even.

Telling girls to lay on the floor or bend over is not foreplay. Tricks like locking them alone in rooms and invading their personal space, threats, manipulation, lying, etc, etc,... The deluge of creepy behavior coming out lately is severely damaging the Dharma. We will become a joke like Catholic priests.
Okay, so your suggestion is...?
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that, through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed May 08, 2019 10:17 pm

smcj wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:12 pm
My point is simply about being a hypocrite. Don't pretend to be a monk and carelessly bang randoms on the side. Especially if it seems you only want to publicly have vows to make a living. I know a few Lama marriages full of infidelity, betrayal and anger as well. The problem is using rank and psychological manipulation. Generally by the dudes who never had game to begin with. A young consort is wonderful for your health and practice. A truly monumental blessing. One that needs respect, enthusiastic consent and discretion. A good consort can easily prolong the life of a teacher by decades even.

Telling girls to lay on the floor or bend over is not foreplay. Tricks like locking them alone in rooms and invading their personal space, threats, manipulation, lying, etc, etc,... The deluge of creepy behavior coming out lately is severely damaging the Dharma. We will become a joke like Catholic priests.
Okay, so your suggestion is...?
Not treating women like shit or props maybe? I know it's a crazy radical notion, but it might just be connected to what's going on here.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

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