Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

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zerwe
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by zerwe » Sat May 25, 2019 2:21 am

Updated reply from the organization

https://fpmt.org/fpmt-community-news/st ... -rinpoche/

Shaun :namaste:

PeterC
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by PeterC » Sat May 25, 2019 11:13 am

FPMT’s handling of this is pretty much exemplary. Neither defending nor prejudging the accused, and being completely transparent about what has happened


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Miroku
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Miroku » Sat May 25, 2019 2:03 pm

I must say that I cannot help but rejoice at how the matters are handled by FPMT. It seems pretty professional to me.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat May 25, 2019 6:30 pm

i agree, it's the best handle i have seen.

jmlee369
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by jmlee369 » Wed May 29, 2019 3:06 am

Someone is putting in money to publicise this issue, and emphasising the FPMT connection.
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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed May 29, 2019 1:45 pm

jmlee369 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:06 am
Someone is putting in money to publicise this issue, and emphasising the FPMT connection.
:o

n8pee
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by n8pee » Wed May 29, 2019 2:37 pm

jmlee369 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:06 am
Someone is putting in money to publicise this issue, and emphasising the FPMT connection.
Very sad, though I do feel there will be more of this. A sign of our degenerate times. I feel it is pretty obvious who/what is driving this desire for division and I think it is disgusting.

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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by PeterC » Wed May 29, 2019 5:07 pm

From the Whois entry it seems the website was set up around the 12th may. The owner used a proxy registrar to conceal their identity.

The whole thing is basically a hit job on the fpmt. To date it’s been viewed 11k times.

This is particularly annoying given how good the fpmt’s handling of the situation has been.

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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed May 29, 2019 6:59 pm

PeterC wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 5:07 pm
From the Whois entry it seems the website was set up around the 12th may. The owner used a proxy registrar to conceal their identity.

The whole thing is basically a hit job on the fpmt. To date it’s been viewed 11k times.

This is particularly annoying given how good the fpmt’s handling of the situation has been.
but who would be interested in harming fpmt? and why?

or maybe is just against Dagri R. a kind of ill will thing.

this is very nasty.

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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Bristollad » Wed May 29, 2019 8:38 pm

Tenzin Peljor, a German monk who has been actively calling for an investigation of these allegations and helped promote the recent online petition by senior nuns posted this on his facebook page yesterday:

+++ FAKE CLAIMS +++
The screenshot below documents one of many fake claims or fake news spread online to attack the FPMT, Lama Zopa Rinpoche and the Dalai Lama.
For those who don't have a good background knowledge about the Shugden controversy and the propaganda skills of the Tsem Tulku trolls and the NKT media teams, please don't follow anonymous websites uncritically and please don't believe everything been written on anonymous websites...

Image

PeterC
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by PeterC » Thu May 30, 2019 2:04 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:59 pm

but who would be interested in harming fpmt? and why?
Almost certainly the he-who-must-not-be-named crowd. They’re well organized, fpmt is a regular target of theirs, and this is their style.

Most Dharma organizations or individual practitioners would not have been able to get a website fully populated with fake content up and running so quickly, nor would they have had the foresight to anonymize it.

After the debacles of the lakhar and Mukpo affairs it is encouraging to see fpmt demonstrate that this sort of scandal *can* be handled responsibly and sensitively. This sort of mud-throwing doesn’t detract from that.

n8pee
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by n8pee » Thu May 30, 2019 2:51 am

The he-who-must-not-be-named crowd is also very savvy with SEO (search engine optimization) and utilize a variety of online platforms (I was dismayed by their presence on Pinterest for instance). Almost reminiscent of the Russian online interference with American Democracy.

crazy-man
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by crazy-man » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:36 pm

Analysis about the current situation from Anne Iris Miriam Anders (PhD) who conducts a three-year research project at the Ludwig-Maximilians-University Munich funded by the German Federal Ministry of Education and Research (BMBF) on Tibetan medicine - including research in abuse in Buddhist communities -
https://www.en.transtibmed.ethnologie.u ... index.html

more news:
http://beyondthetemple.com/does-dagri-r ... 9AfNnD_W5k
https://www.buddhistprojectsunshine.org ... dhist-Nuns

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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by PeterC » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:17 am

crazy-man wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:36 pm
Analysis about the current situation from Anne Iris Miriam Anders (PhD) who conducts a three-year research project at the Ludwig-Maximilians-University Munich funded by the German Federal Ministry of Education and Research (BMBF) on Tibetan medicine - including research in abuse in Buddhist communities -
https://www.en.transtibmed.ethnologie.u ... index.html
Zopa R is a 70-year-old traditionally-educated monk. He’s asked to give a statement, he gives a statement. It feels a bit unfair to then subject that to a very modern form of analysis which he probably is completely unfamiliar with, and label it “disgusting”. The official statement and response of the fpmt is actually very reasonable and thoughtful. Why doesn’t she critique or even mention that statement?

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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:15 am

PeterC wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:17 am
crazy-man wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:36 pm
Analysis about the current situation from Anne Iris Miriam Anders (PhD) who conducts a three-year research project at the Ludwig-Maximilians-University Munich funded by the German Federal Ministry of Education and Research (BMBF) on Tibetan medicine - including research in abuse in Buddhist communities -
https://www.en.transtibmed.ethnologie.u ... index.html
Zopa R is a 70-year-old traditionally-educated monk. He’s asked to give a statement, he gives a statement. It feels a bit unfair to then subject that to a very modern form of analysis which he probably is completely unfamiliar with, and label it “disgusting”. The official statement and response of the fpmt is actually very reasonable and thoughtful. Why doesn’t she critique or even mention that statement?

I agree here. It always strikes me as arrogant when Westerners demand that communication happen in their format and no other, and I also think the FPMT has so far handled this exactly as I hope others will handle such things in the future. Sometimes it amazes me that people can be around all these Tibetans and not notice that they have a different set of social mores than a German grad student. I mean really, I want people held accountable too, but we cannot expect someone who grew up in a traditional Asian culture (much less a formally educated monk) to have the same degree of openness talking about something like this that we would. It's such a silly and unrealistic expectation, but I see it often. She seems to know this, but does not adjust her expectations accordingly.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Garudavista
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Garudavista » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:56 pm

https://youtu.be/AXI7h72a6R4?t=15m9s

In this video (15m9s in) Lama Lena advises a female Dzogchen practitioner on how to approach her concern about a teacher of hers who was recently accused of sexual abuse by some of his female students. Lama Lena gives the most honest and cogent advice I’ve ever heard any teacher give about this kind of problem. She even shares a personal story that involves her getting caught sleeping with one of her lama’s wives, which then caused that lama to quite seriously chase her around with an axe, to the point that Lama Lena had to climb on top of a shed to avoid being chopped up by him.
I’m posting this here because I believe her words may help any students who are struggling with the same problem as the student posing her question to Lama Lena.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:57 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:15 am
PeterC wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:17 am
crazy-man wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:36 pm
Analysis about the current situation from Anne Iris Miriam Anders (PhD) who conducts a three-year research project at the Ludwig-Maximilians-University Munich funded by the German Federal Ministry of Education and Research (BMBF) on Tibetan medicine - including research in abuse in Buddhist communities -
https://www.en.transtibmed.ethnologie.u ... index.html
Zopa R is a 70-year-old traditionally-educated monk. He’s asked to give a statement, he gives a statement. It feels a bit unfair to then subject that to a very modern form of analysis which he probably is completely unfamiliar with, and label it “disgusting”. The official statement and response of the fpmt is actually very reasonable and thoughtful. Why doesn’t she critique or even mention that statement?

I agree here. It always strikes me as arrogant when Westerners demand that communication happen in their format and no other, and I also think the FPMT has so far handled this exactly as I hope others will handle such things in the future. Sometimes it amazes me that people can be around all these Tibetans and not notice that they have a different set of social mores than a German grad student. I mean really, I want people held accountable too, but we cannot expect someone who grew up in a traditional Asian culture (much less a formally educated monk) to have the same degree of openness talking about something like this that we would. It's such a silly and unrealistic expectation, but I see it often. She seems to know this, but does not adjust her expectations accordingly.
next generation of monks won't have the same education as in tibet, what to expect then?

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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:03 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:57 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:15 am
PeterC wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:17 am


Zopa R is a 70-year-old traditionally-educated monk. He’s asked to give a statement, he gives a statement. It feels a bit unfair to then subject that to a very modern form of analysis which he probably is completely unfamiliar with, and label it “disgusting”. The official statement and response of the fpmt is actually very reasonable and thoughtful. Why doesn’t she critique or even mention that statement?

I agree here. It always strikes me as arrogant when Westerners demand that communication happen in their format and no other, and I also think the FPMT has so far handled this exactly as I hope others will handle such things in the future. Sometimes it amazes me that people can be around all these Tibetans and not notice that they have a different set of social mores than a German grad student. I mean really, I want people held accountable too, but we cannot expect someone who grew up in a traditional Asian culture (much less a formally educated monk) to have the same degree of openness talking about something like this that we would. It's such a silly and unrealistic expectation, but I see it often. She seems to know this, but does not adjust her expectations accordingly.
next generation of monks won't have the same education as in tibet, what to expect then?
Not sure you quite get what I was saying. Whether they are raised in the Tibetan exile community within India or Nepal doesn't really affect what I am talking about. The question is whether someone is raised with "Western style" mores regarding how they talk about controversy.

I have to note with some serious irony that DJKR has basically a Western-style, confrontational sensibility about these things. So even where he is railing against "Western Chauvinism" or something he is upholding western style debate in his public polemics.

So i'm not saying they shouldn't be held accountable by any means, I'm saying that we cannot expect people not raised with Western style communication and social mores to communicate with them. The woman in the video seems to think otherwise, and that's what I was addressing.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

crazy-man
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Re: Another Topic of molesting female practitioner

Post by crazy-man » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:47 pm

Statements from the 14th Dalai Lama on the Instruction to See All Actions of the Lama as Perfect, from Lamrim and from Tantric Perspectives
Some texts make statements such as ‘See all actions of your spiritual mentor as perfect’ and “Follow your mentor’s instructions exactly with complete devotion.” These statements are made in the context of highest yoga tantra and apply to exceptional cases in which both the spiritual master and the disciple are highly qualified—for example, Tilopa and his disciple Naropa, and Marpa and his disciple Milarepa. If we are not the calibre of Naropa and our mentor does not have the qualities of Tilopa, these statements can be greatly misleading. Hearing stories of Tilopa’s seemingly abusive treatment of Naropa—instructing him to jump off a cliff and so forth—and Marpa instructing Milarepa to build some buildings and then tear them down, some people think that following their teacher’s instructions included allowing themselves to be abused. This is not the case at all! Marpa told Milarepa, “Do not treat your students like I treated you or the way the great Naropa treated me. Such practice should not be continued in the future.” This is because it is very rare to find both a teacher and a disciple who have realizations comparable to those great masters.
I have had many teachers whom I value greatly, but I cannot accept seeing all their actions as perfect. When I was in my teens, my two regents fought each other in a power struggle that involved the Tibetan army. When I sat on my meditation seat, I felt both teachers were extremely kind and had profound respect for them; their disagreements did not matter. But when I had to deal with the difficulties caused by their dissension, I said to them, “What you are doing is wrong!” I did not speak out of hatred or disrespect, but because I love the Buddhadharma, and their actions went against it. I felt no conflict in loyalty by acting in this way. In our practice, we may view the guru’s behaviour as that of a mahasiddha, but in the conventional world we follow the general Buddhist approach, and if a certain behaviour is harmful, we should say so.
The advice to see all the guru’s actions as perfect is not meant for general practitioners. Because it is open to misunderstanding, it can easily become poison for both mentors and students. Students naively whitewashing a teacher’s bad behaviour by thinking anything the guru does must be good gives some teachers a free hand to misbehave. On the teacher’s part, poor behaviour is tantamount to drinking the hot molten iron of the hellish states, and it contributes to the degeneration of the Dharma in the world. Only in particular situations and to particular practitioners should it be taught that all the guru’s actions are perfect. Buddhism is based on reasoning and wisdom and must remain so.
https://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/2 ... alai-lama/

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