Kalachakra War Prophecy

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Nicholas Weeks
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Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:58 pm

Around 300 years from now, forces from Central Asia will destroy an Islamic army and thus usher in an era of peace.
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Mkoll
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Mkoll » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:16 am

What's the source of this idea?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:34 am

Mkoll wrote:What's the source of this idea?
The Kalacakra Tantra. John Newman and Alex Berzin have written about the prophecy.
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Malcolm
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Malcolm » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:39 am

Will wrote:Around 300 years from now, forces from Central Asia will destroy an Islamic army and thus usher in an era of peace.
I have ascertained an important point about this. The passage that clarifies everything about this is as follows:
  • Also the illusory form will war on the Barbarians in the land of Mecca.
Taktsang Lotsawa's states:
  • [T]hough it appears that life is taken and so on, the passage is saying that there is no war involving the misdeeds of taking life and so on.
My footnote to this passage states:
This passage, wrongly interpreted, could damage interfaith exchanges between Buddhists and Muslims. This passage has been understood by earlier scholars up to the present as indicating that the “war” with the Barbarians in Mecca will be fought in a concrete external sense (See Wallace, 2004, pg. 61), in addition to its inner sense without clarifying the non-violent nature of this war. However, PN, pg. 50, states, annotations in italics, “(For the most part, the four divisions of the Cakrin’s army is an emanation), Also the illusory form (the Cakrin) will war on the Barbarians (in the manner of establishing them in the Dharma through intimidation) in the external land of Mecca; but there is no war (in the manner of taking the lives of Barbarians).” Waldo, pg. 56, 2005, erroneously translates ma kha, i.e.Mecca, as mkha’, i.e. space.
So yes, there is a war, but no lives will be taken.

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:14 am

At present I do not see how the barbarians would be intimidated, other than through dying.

Of course, Shambhala super weaponry of 300 years hence could produce a non-lethal, but profoundly painful weapon. Something like that is being developed now. So paralysis or sleep or total confusion could be effective in rendering the barbarian war machine ineffective. Let it come to be!
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Malcolm » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:42 am

Will wrote:At present I do not see how the barbarians would be intimidated, other than through dying.

Of course, Shambhala super weaponry of 300 years hence could produce a non-lethal, but profoundly painful weapon. Something like that is being developed now. So paralysis or sleep or total confusion could be effective in rendering the barbarian war machine ineffective. Let it come to be!
My statement above is based directly on the relevant passage from the Kalacakra root tantra, as well as the Vimalaprabha commentary which are both translated above,

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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:53 am

Malcolm wrote:
Will wrote:At present I do not see how the barbarians would be intimidated, other than through dying.

Of course, Shambhala super weaponry of 300 years hence could produce a non-lethal, but profoundly painful weapon. Something like that is being developed now. So paralysis or sleep or total confusion could be effective in rendering the barbarian war machine ineffective. Let it come to be!
My statement above is based directly on the relevant passage from the Kalacakra root tantra, as well as the Vimalaprabha commentary which are both translated above,

So does my notion of non-lethal weaponry not fit your idea of the war? Or do you mean some sort of Shambhala siddhis will produce scarifying illusory visions and dreams that will cause the barbarians to forgo war? Clarify please.
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Malcolm » Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:12 am

Will wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Will wrote:At present I do not see how the barbarians would be intimidated, other than through dying.

Of course, Shambhala super weaponry of 300 years hence could produce a non-lethal, but profoundly painful weapon. Something like that is being developed now. So paralysis or sleep or total confusion could be effective in rendering the barbarian war machine ineffective. Let it come to be!
My statement above is based directly on the relevant passage from the Kalacakra root tantra, as well as the Vimalaprabha commentary which are both translated above,

So does my notion of non-lethal weaponry not fit your idea of the war? Or do you mean some sort of Shambhala siddhis will produce scarifying illusory visions and dreams that will cause the barbarians to forgo war? Clarify please.
The passage is pretty clear, intimidation will happen through illusions.

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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:49 am

Malcom:
intimidation will happen through illusions.
Dates differ, so it could be 400 years away.

It could happen through mind made illusions. I recall a story about a Tibetan siddha who, as some of the Chinese soldiers approached, made them see something fearsome (I forgot what) and they turned and ran. So if scores of future bodhisattva siddhas have this power, then it could work, if focused on the leadership of the barbarian military.
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Malcolm » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:14 am

Will wrote:Malcom:
intimidation will happen through illusions.
Dates differ, so it could be 400 years away.

It could happen through mind made illusions. I recall a story about a Tibetan siddha who, as some of the Chinese soldiers approached, made them see something fearsome (I forgot what) and they turned and ran. So if scores of future bodhisattva siddhas have this power, then it could work, if focused on the leadership of the barbarian military.
The war with the barbarians happens 1800 years after the conquest of mecca.

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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:39 am

conquest of mecca is 630 + 1800 = 2430
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Sherlock » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:22 am

From that quote by Malcolm, and precedents from Buddhist history (Songtsan Gampo, Avatamsaka sutra) I think it will appear just like any war to ordinary observers. i.e., combatants will seem to be killed. However, in reality the combatants are just illusory emanations of enlightened beings to strike fear into and tame unruly beings.

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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Grigoris » Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:14 am

Will wrote:...or total confusion...
Don't need a weapon to pull that one off! ;)
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Sherab
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Sherab » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:36 pm

I've just finished reading the book "The Ultimate Time Machine" by Joseph McMoneagle*. In the last chapter, he peered into the year 3000. In that chapter, he mentioned that "I have a sense that there has been a great religious war that ravaged the land, but it has long since ended." So who knows, from an ordinary perspective there could be the taking of lives.

*Joe was once a remote viewer (sort of a psychic spy) working for the US government and has subjected his ability to rigorous testing by scientists.

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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by shaunc » Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:03 pm

Even if I was to accept this prophesy as 100% accurate. My question is how will this affect my life or my dharma practise now.

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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:26 pm

shaunc wrote:Even if I was to accept this prophesy as 100% accurate. My question is how will this affect my life or my dharma practise now.
Many Kalacakra initiates prepare now to help the Ruler of Shambala defeat the barbarians at the time of the war. How do they prepare? One must ask a Kalacakra initiate.
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Malcolm » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:11 pm

Will wrote:
shaunc wrote:Even if I was to accept this prophesy as 100% accurate. My question is how will this affect my life or my dharma practise now.
Many Kalacakra initiates prepare now to help the Ruler of Shambala defeat the barbarians at the time of the war. How do they prepare? One must ask a Kalacakra initiate.
If you receive the empowerment and maintain your samaya, this is sufficient to be reborn in Shambhala at that time.

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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:39 pm

The important point, IMO, is not whether it is physical or illusory but that islam will be a dominating and destructive world force that needs to be tamed/destroyed. Doesnt take a lot to see the beginnings of that now...aaannndd before the PC police jump in let me categorically state that I am not antimuslim..those are just confused people..I am antiislam....no matter how you gloss it up it is a bad set of ideas...
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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by ClearblueSky » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:32 am

Fa Dao wrote:The important point, IMO, is not whether it is physical or illusory but that islam will be a dominating and destructive world force that needs to be tamed/destroyed. Doesnt take a lot to see the beginnings of that now...aaannndd before the PC police jump in let me categorically state that I am not antimuslim..those are just confused people..I am antiislam....no matter how you gloss it up it is a bad set of ideas...
This doesn't come across as anti-muslim (per se), it just is realistic with the current times. If it was a few hundred years ago, it would be Christians I'd be worried about instead. At a certain time and area, I'd be worried about Buddhists and Hindus fighting it out too. It's about what's happening in the time we currently live, looking at it realistically. I don't want to hijack the poll by being too political, but my personal belief is the way things will ultimately "settle" a bit is more within the muslim world itself. We forget it's largely muslims versus other muslims. Just as protestants and catholics had some bloody times and then things settled down, I do think that is what needs to happen here. I do not believe a Buddhist force will come in and suddenly change extremists minds, as "nice" as that would be.

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Re: Poll: Kalacakra war prophecy

Post by Shamati » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:14 am

I've never heard of the 'kalachakra forces'. Can someone give a quick overview? Obviously, The problem of Islamic militancy is growing & is likely to continue growing in proportion with the growth of the populations that are Islamic.

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