Mantra siddhi

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PeterC
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Mantra siddhi

Post by PeterC » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:19 pm

Sennin wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:20 am
Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:00 am


It also says that such a statement is merely used to describe the greatness of the mantra and the text.

This is sort of the crux of my question. Some statements glorify certain mantras to grant attainment by relying on the mantra. I am merely trying to discover which mantras are glorified in this way. It's common knowledge that GR and VY do, but my curiosity is what other mantras have this glorification. There have been several replies already that have answered my initial op.
I can't remember the references but I have seen texts talk about low-capacity practitioners reciting mantras more as a supplication. As Greg says there are always comments praising particular practices ("even if one hears this mantra once or sees it written it will eliminate the karma of a million lifetimes..." sort of thing). But I think it would be wrong to believe that there are certain "special" mantras that confer magical benefits from just repeating them absent any of the rest of the visualization, in a way that "regular" mantras do not. I have never heard any teacher say that.

Sennin
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 am

Re: Mantra siddhi

Post by Sennin » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:56 pm

dzoki wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:56 am
Sennin wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:15 pm
heart wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:08 pm


Many years ago I was present when someone suggested this to Thrangu Rinpoche and he answered; "without the visualisation there will be no siddhi".

/magnus
One just needs to recite Vajrayogini mantra to gain all siddhi, this is in the Chakrasamvara root tantra.
Can you provide a quote regarding this? As far sa I know some tantras say the following (according to JIgme Lingpa): "A mere recitaion of mantra turning in the heart of the deity is sufficient to gain all the siddhis." Which means that you have to visualise yourself as a deity and visualise a mantra garland in you heart turning. So that is completely different from mere recitation.
Yes, I'll pm you when I get home to my texts. Chapter 48 is very clear in just relying on the mantra. I've also heard this from the Guru who gave the transmission.

I've also heard from another teacher that VG mantra is similarly powerful, this is also mentioned in Karma Lingpas commentary.
"One should always recite mantra, purifying the body."
--Cakrasaṃvara Tantra

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tobes
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Re: Mantra siddhi

Post by tobes » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:16 am

PeterC wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:19 pm
Sennin wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:20 am
Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:00 am


It also says that such a statement is merely used to describe the greatness of the mantra and the text.

This is sort of the crux of my question. Some statements glorify certain mantras to grant attainment by relying on the mantra. I am merely trying to discover which mantras are glorified in this way. It's common knowledge that GR and VY do, but my curiosity is what other mantras have this glorification. There have been several replies already that have answered my initial op.
I can't remember the references but I have seen texts talk about low-capacity practitioners reciting mantras more as a supplication. As Greg says there are always comments praising particular practices ("even if one hears this mantra once or sees it written it will eliminate the karma of a million lifetimes..." sort of thing). But I think it would be wrong to believe that there are certain "special" mantras that confer magical benefits from just repeating them absent any of the rest of the visualization, in a way that "regular" mantras do not. I have never heard any teacher say that.
As far as gaining siddhi goes, perhaps.

But I have definitely heard teachers extol the benefits of special mantras - some which only require being seen, not even recited.

PeterC
Posts: 1047
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Mantra siddhi

Post by PeterC » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:11 am

tobes wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:16 am
PeterC wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:19 pm
Sennin wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:20 am


This is sort of the crux of my question. Some statements glorify certain mantras to grant attainment by relying on the mantra. I am merely trying to discover which mantras are glorified in this way. It's common knowledge that GR and VY do, but my curiosity is what other mantras have this glorification. There have been several replies already that have answered my initial op.
I can't remember the references but I have seen texts talk about low-capacity practitioners reciting mantras more as a supplication. As Greg says there are always comments praising particular practices ("even if one hears this mantra once or sees it written it will eliminate the karma of a million lifetimes..." sort of thing). But I think it would be wrong to believe that there are certain "special" mantras that confer magical benefits from just repeating them absent any of the rest of the visualization, in a way that "regular" mantras do not. I have never heard any teacher say that.
As far as gaining siddhi goes, perhaps.

But I have definitely heard teachers extol the benefits of special mantras - some which only require being seen, not even recited.
Pretty much every single text will extol the magical power of the mantra or dharani it describes (the seeing/touching/copying ones are usually dharanis, not mantras) and how it is supreme over all other practices etc etc. That's what the texts say, so lamas repeat it when they give transmission, but it should be taken with an appropriately-sized pinch of salt. Of course touching or seeing a mantra, or reciting it distractedly has some benefit relative to *not* doing that. But would you ever advise someone to only look at mantras and not recite them according to the sadhana's instructions? Of course not.

Rinchen Samphel
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:47 am

Re: Mantra siddhi

Post by Rinchen Samphel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:45 am

PeterC wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:11 am
Pretty much every single text will extol the magical power of the mantra or dharani it describes (the seeing/touching/copying ones are usually dharanis, not mantras) and how it is supreme over all other practices etc etc. That's what the texts say, so lamas repeat it when they give transmission, but it should be taken with an appropriately-sized pinch of salt. Of course touching or seeing a mantra, or reciting it distractedly has some benefit relative to *not* doing that. But would you ever advise someone to only look at mantras and not recite them according to the sadhana's instructions? Of course not.
I agree with this. I think all that Grigoris, PeterC and myself are doing is safeguaring against using these instuctions as an excuse to practice less.

Sennin
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 am

Re: Mantra siddhi

Post by Sennin » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:41 am

Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:45 am
PeterC wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:11 am
Pretty much every single text will extol the magical power of the mantra or dharani it describes (the seeing/touching/copying ones are usually dharanis, not mantras) and how it is supreme over all other practices etc etc. That's what the texts say, so lamas repeat it when they give transmission, but it should be taken with an appropriately-sized pinch of salt. Of course touching or seeing a mantra, or reciting it distractedly has some benefit relative to *not* doing that. But would you ever advise someone to only look at mantras and not recite them according to the sadhana's instructions? Of course not.
I agree with this. I think all that Grigoris, PeterC and myself are doing is safeguaring against using these instuctions as an excuse to practice less.
At this point, I feel I believe I've been misunderstood by some, accused of making excuses and all that. I already received some good replies to my question, so I'll leave y'all to it.
"One should always recite mantra, purifying the body."
--Cakrasaṃvara Tantra

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