Travelling on the sunrays

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
pemachophel
Posts: 1615
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by pemachophel » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:12 pm

Peter,

Being overly desirous and fixated on even supreme siddhi (i.e., Realization) is a problem. So no disagreement that it is not good practice to put too much emphasis of common siddhi, but I think you and a number of other respondents on this thread are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Have you done enough of a Yidam or Dakini sadhana to get to the lay-jor/lay-tshog section? In most full sadhanas (as opposed to gun-khyer, short daily practices), after doing the approach and accomplishment, one does one or more lay-jor or activities. These always involve common or ordinary siddhi. (When I say Yidam or Dakini sadhanas, these are typically done in Tibetan settings in long-term, as in three-year, retreat. So many modern practitioners never get to these.)

As for contemporary masters and common siddhi, because the attainment of these is usually kept very secret and not shown openly, we really can't say what masters have or do not have such siddhi. Nor can we say for sure what a Teacher says in public is the same thing they might say to advanced student in strict secrecy.

I'm from a very "ngakpa" lineage and, without question, my Teachers had and sometimes manifested common siddhi when the situation was right. In addition, They expected Their students to also attain siddhi as part of their training (but, of course, not the end goal). At some point in Their advanced students' training, after having done the Three Roots, each student had to promise to attain one of the eight common siddhi.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

User avatar
AmidaB
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by AmidaB » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:29 pm

With the siddhi of fleet-footedness (Skt. pādukāsiddhi; Tib. རྐང་མགྱོགས་, Wyl. rkang mgyogs), by wearing boots you have blessed, you can walk around a lake in an instant;
I have heard that this one is a rather realistic accomplishment as a kind of branch practice or specialization after you have acquired proficiency in gTummo practice.
so, here we come to a method Kang gyok or Lun Ta in which you can use the bodies way to dicharge. see whenever you have too much charge, the body uses the legs to discharge: when children are angry they are stomping with their feet, when you are very afraid your knees will shake (if you stay) or run to flee
Gang gyok uses this fact. It is a meditation that combines the benefits of tummo (charge) with the benefits of running (discharge/spreading).
You should do 2 or 3 preliminary practices of trulkhor before, especially the spinejumping is cool and traditionally used, the breath through both nostrils should be equal before you run.
1. Make a fist with your middle and ringfinger, enclose the thumb. index finger pinky are stretched.
2. breath in through your closed teeth along the back of your throat and hold 1/3rd of the breath in the place 4 fingers below the navel, 1 finger in front of the spine, with the size of an egg. that means also caontract the lower abdomen a little (25%)
3. breath only through the nose, rather flat. never open the mouth. rather slow down.
4. visualise yourself as a very, very beautiful/handsome transparent green girl/guy with wings instead of arms. under your feet is a green light or half moon so that you never touch the earth while running, in your navel is a green light that might get stronger when you breath in.
7. bend your upper body a bit forward, dont stay upright.
8. Now run 21 steps as strong and fast with body bent forward. give as much power as possible
9. Run the next 21 steps fully at ease without any power, let the energy move your body, keep the visualisation, breath only through the nose.
10. When your legs loose energy or get weak focus on the light in your navel. concentrate on keeping 30 % of the breath there unchanged so that you only breath with the rest of 70%. If you feel something pulling you down add 2 green lights in your armpits or if necessary 2 deities that carry you there.
The last two quotes were from here: http://awakenetwork.org/forum/kfd-archi ... ?start=300
And the usual warning: never try any similar practice without proper guidance from an experienced master/lama/guru.

Does anyone know the tibetan and/or sanskrit name of one or more kind of flying siddhi?
Best,
ab

pemachophel
Posts: 1615
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by pemachophel » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:23 pm

Amida,

I personally know one Lama, a famous tsa-lung Teacher recently deceased, who accomplished kang-gyog and one of His students who has promised to also accomplish this siddhi.

Peter,

I'm just working on translating a sadhana and came to the line: "The obscurations of speech are purified and the siddhi of speech are attained." This is at the end of consecrating the speech done before each and every session. The "siddhi of speech" are common siddhi. They include fearless public speaking, never forgetting a syllable or word of the Dharma, eloquence, melodiousness, plus the power of whatever one says coming true. While the first of these abilities can be seen as mundane (although their method of accomplishment is not), the last one is supramundane. You could also say magic, which is what siddhi are. They are the accomplishment of abilities the overwhelming majority of people would say are impossible or at least miraculous. In any case, I would suggest that some/many Teachers use this siddhi all the time with Their students in teaching the Dharma. It helps explain why the speech of some Lamas is much more alluring and powerful than others'. This is one of the main siddhi of Cho-kyi Gocha's Red Saraswati terma. IOW, it is one of the main reasons why one might do this sadhana.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

pemachophel
Posts: 1615
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by pemachophel » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:30 pm

Amida,

In the biography of H.H. Chetsang Rinpoche, in a list of the eight common or ordinary siddhi, it refers to the siddhi of flying as mkha' spyod kyi dngos grubs (kha-cho-kyi ngo-drub).
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:44 pm

Sure, someone having Siddhis does not necessarily mean they have realization, However .. if someone is fully realized they 'will' have Siddhis as a matter of course.

For all those claiming it has little to do with the Buddhist goal and the Buddha's concern, let's not forget that the Buddha himself exhibited miracles. Chotrul Duchen anyone??

If Siddhis were not important we would not be praying for them in all of our Pujas, Just look at the words in your Tsok accumulation prayers, & what is a formal retreat without the receiving of Siddhis section?

If they are not important to "you" that's fine, but one shouldn't say they are not important in the tradition.

Do you think a master who has clairvoyance can benefit students more then one taking an informed guess? I certainly thing so.

What is dangerous is those with an incomplete realization, or those who have some form of Siddhi's without Bodhichitta. Otherwise, the ability to manipulate phenomena which other people may call a miracle is part and parcel of our Bodhisattva activities as a Vajrayana practitioner, ala the four activities.
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa

User avatar
Könchok Thrinley
Former staff member
Posts: 2198
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:49 pm

From a booklet on developing of love and compassion:
Having recognized bodhicitta and practiced
according to the instructions, we are to go now to a lonely place and sit in deep
samadhi. Through this meditation we receive great power, and are able to
practice without boundaries or limitations. We use this powerful means to
benefit all beings, overcome disease, war, famine, drought, and so on. If you
see an area of the country with unfavorable conditions such as these, sit in
samadhi and develop love for the human beings of that area and also for all
living beings in that land. In this way, unfavorable conditions are pacified. By
wishing, “In this area may disease, war, famine, and so forth be subdued.” the
conditions are pacified.
So it seems that really siddhis are sort of part of the package.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

Simon E.
Posts: 7652
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Simon E. » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:06 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:44 pm
Sure, someone having Siddhis does not necessarily mean they have realization, However .. if someone is fully realized they 'will' have Siddhis as a matter of course.

For all those claiming it has little to do with the Buddhist goal and the Buddha's concern, let's not forget that the Buddha himself exhibited miracles. Chotrul Duchen anyone??

If Siddhis were not important we would not be praying for them in all of our Pujas, Just look at the words in your Tsok accumulation prayers, & what is a formal retreat without the receiving of Siddhis section?

If they are not important to "you" that's fine, but one shouldn't say they are not important in the tradition.
I
Do you think a master who has clairvoyance can benefit students more then one taking an informed guess? I certainly thing so.

What is dangerous is those with an incomplete realization, or those who have some form of Siddhi's without Bodhichitta. Otherwise, the ability to manipulate phenomena which other people may call a miracle is part and parcel of our Bodhisattva activities as a Vajrayana practitioner, ala the four activities.
I have seen no one say that siddhis are not important in the tradition.
What I have seen is the view being expressed that siddhis are not a goal in themselves. That they are a byproduct of something else, that an undue emphasis on the development of siddhis outside of a context of the actualisation of teachings received from a bona fire teacher can be an impediment to practice.
It is understandable that those raised in a atmosphere of cynicism to things not seen with material vision should be fascinated by evidence of such phenomena. But we should be wary of being drawn to run or even fly before we can walk.
Most of us would do well to use this precious human birth to cultivate Bodhicitta and help clean up the neighbourhood.
If Siddhis arise then so be it. In the meantime there are mundane tasks to do. Enough to last a lifetime.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

User avatar
明安 Myoan
Former staff member
Posts: 2492
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 am

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by 明安 Myoan » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:12 pm

Well, although everyone knows already, aspirational bodhicitta is a siddhi before your very eyes :smile: Think of the magical transformative power it brings through your thoughts, words, and actions.

I think siddhis are really interesting.
They seem to be par for the course when you look at the lives of any school's masters.
I've read about them in Theravada, Zen, Chan and Thien, the nembutsu schools of Japan, and of course in sutras. To the point that suspension of disbelief was really the only option at times!

Master Shantao for example was said to emit a small golden buddha from his mouth with every repetition of Amida's name.
I have a better idea now after some years of what that may mean to a follower of Master Shantao's teachings. But it still is extraordinary when taken at face value, which it should be.

I've also been around some Vajrayana teachers who, somehow, seemed to stabilize my ability to visualize and concentrate, when normally I rely on chanting.

At KCC here in Oregon for instance, I saw (and still see today) two brilliant blue lotuses side by side in my mind whenever I'm in their main building.
Likewise, Lama Tsang Tsing brought an atmosphere of perfect ease and peace to a packed, nervous room. Everyone relaxed right away.

Vajrayana and Chinese Pure Land are where I've read the most stories like these, and Simon E.'s. But in person, is anyone who attains a siddhi likely to show or admit they have them at all? :shrug:

Otherwise, PeterC said what Master Kuya said, when asked how to chant nembutsu, "Just discard!"
Experiences are bound to happen in association with sincere practice.

Of interest as well are the "siddhis" of buddhas and bodhisattvas, which somehow their mantras and names tap into.

Oops, I've rambled a bit.
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

Reciting the nembutsu and believing in birth in the Pure Land naturally give rise to the Three Minds and the Four Modes of Practice. -- Master Hōnen

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 11003
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:18 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:44 pm
Sure, someone having Siddhis does not necessarily mean they have realization, However .. if someone is fully realized they 'will' have Siddhis as a matter of course.

For all those claiming it has little to do with the Buddhist goal and the Buddha's concern, let's not forget that the Buddha himself exhibited miracles. Chotrul Duchen anyone??

If Siddhis were not important we would not be praying for them in all of our Pujas, Just look at the words in your Tsok accumulation prayers, & what is a formal retreat without the receiving of Siddhis section?

If they are not important to "you" that's fine, but one shouldn't say they are not important in the tradition.

Do you think a master who has clairvoyance can benefit students more then one taking an informed guess? I certainly thing so.

What is dangerous is those with an incomplete realization, or those who have some form of Siddhi's without Bodhichitta. Otherwise, the ability to manipulate phenomena which other people may call a miracle is part and parcel of our Bodhisattva activities as a Vajrayana practitioner, ala the four activities.

Cool, you and Pema let me know when you develop them. You can act as an inspiration for all of us;)
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:32 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:18 pm
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:44 pm
Sure, someone having Siddhis does not necessarily mean they have realization, However .. if someone is fully realized they 'will' have Siddhis as a matter of course.

For all those claiming it has little to do with the Buddhist goal and the Buddha's concern, let's not forget that the Buddha himself exhibited miracles. Chotrul Duchen anyone??

If Siddhis were not important we would not be praying for them in all of our Pujas, Just look at the words in your Tsok accumulation prayers, & what is a formal retreat without the receiving of Siddhis section?

If they are not important to "you" that's fine, but one shouldn't say they are not important in the tradition.

Do you think a master who has clairvoyance can benefit students more then one taking an informed guess? I certainly thing so.

What is dangerous is those with an incomplete realization, or those who have some form of Siddhi's without Bodhichitta. Otherwise, the ability to manipulate phenomena which other people may call a miracle is part and parcel of our Bodhisattva activities as a Vajrayana practitioner, ala the four activities.

Cool, you and Pema let me know when you develop them. You can act as an inspiration for all of us;)
It seems your post was meant to be Sarcastic.

In any case, it's not anything particular to me or Lama Pema, as we have stated clearly here, supplication for Siddhis is something that Vajrayana practitioners in General pray for. How you've individualized it in some snarky reply is beyond me.
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 11003
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:35 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:32 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:18 pm
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:44 pm
Sure, someone having Siddhis does not necessarily mean they have realization, However .. if someone is fully realized they 'will' have Siddhis as a matter of course.

For all those claiming it has little to do with the Buddhist goal and the Buddha's concern, let's not forget that the Buddha himself exhibited miracles. Chotrul Duchen anyone??

If Siddhis were not important we would not be praying for them in all of our Pujas, Just look at the words in your Tsok accumulation prayers, & what is a formal retreat without the receiving of Siddhis section?

If they are not important to "you" that's fine, but one shouldn't say they are not important in the tradition.

Do you think a master who has clairvoyance can benefit students more then one taking an informed guess? I certainly thing so.

What is dangerous is those with an incomplete realization, or those who have some form of Siddhi's without Bodhichitta. Otherwise, the ability to manipulate phenomena which other people may call a miracle is part and parcel of our Bodhisattva activities as a Vajrayana practitioner, ala the four activities.

Cool, you and Pema let me know when you develop them. You can act as an inspiration for all of us;)
It seems your post was meant to be Sarcastic.

In any case, it's not anything particular to me or Lama Pema, as we have stated clearly here, supplication for Siddhis is something that Vajrayana practitioners in General pray for. How you've individualized it in some snarky reply is beyond me.
It was intended as a joke, but since you made it personal:

I don't know, maybe it's the preoccupation with the more insular and specialized parts of the tradition and the (pretty much immediate and reflexive) implication that people who care less about this subject are somehow missing some major thing about practice, the insinuation "you're not Buddhist enough" towards people with a less orthodox stance on a fairly specialized subject, it gets tiresome.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:48 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:35 pm
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:32 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:18 pm



Cool, you and Pema let me know when you develop them. You can act as an inspiration for all of us;)
It seems your post was meant to be Sarcastic.

In any case, it's not anything particular to me or Lama Pema, as we have stated clearly here, supplication for Siddhis is something that Vajrayana practitioners in General pray for. How you've individualized it in some snarky reply is beyond me.
It was intended as a joke, but since you made it personal:

I don't know, maybe it's the preoccupation and implication that people who care less about this subject are somehow missing some major thing, the constant "you're not Buddhist enough" towards people with a less orthodox stance on a specialized subject, it gets tiresome.
Considering they are part and parcel of enlightenment in the Vajrayana, maybe preoccupation with realization for the benefit of others will also be considered problematic one day as well.

As Chandrakirti said, the one ignorance practitioners are allowed to have on the path is thinking that there is an Enlightenment. (seeking it, by implication)

Now if you've perceived conversations on maintaining an orthodox style as "You're not Buddhist enough" what is the converse of this statement since you are making it, "you're too Buddhist" ??

I think that what some see as irrelevant details such as whether someone could ride on the rays of the sun, or hang their clothing on sun beams, is really an actualization of the union of appearance and emptiness, the view.

Even as has been recounted on this forum, CHNN considers that until one can hold their hand in a fire and not be burned one is not realized, well that is clearly what commoners would call "miraculous"
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 11003
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:56 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:48 pm


Considering they are part and parcel of enlightenment in the Vajrayana, maybe preoccupation with realization for the benefit of others will also be considered problematic one day as well.

As Chandrakirti said, the one ignorance practitioners are allowed to have on the path is thinking that there is an Enlightenment. (seeking it, by implication)

Now if you've perceived conversations on maintaining an orthodox style as "You're not Buddhist enough" what is the converse of this statement since you are making it, "you're too Buddhist" ??

I think that what some see as irrelevant details such as whether someone could ride on the rays of the sun, or hang their clothing on sun beams, is really an actualization of the union of appearance and emptiness, the view.

Even as has been recounted on this forum, CHNN considers that until one can hold their hand in a fire and not be burned one is not realized, well that is clearly what commoners would call "miraculous"
I don't disbelieve in siddhis at all. I've had dreams and experiences that I'm convinced are the result of a teachers power, huge changes in my own abilities in speech from practicing a certain sadhana.

I guess what chaps me is that both you and Pema appear to be finding a "problem" with other practitioners where none might exist (i.e., they are less concerned with siddhis and the like). If you consider yourself a sufficiently advanced practitioner (I know Pemachopel is a teacher) that you can lecture people about the importance of siddhi and their attainment, and condition them as to how they ought to view them in order to be, I don't know, a doctrinally correct practitioner..I guess it's your prerogative.

That said, I think it's an insular approach that serves to push people away from your position rather than prove whatever point it is you think is important to prove here.
I think that what some see as irrelevant details such as whether someone could ride on the rays of the sun, or hang their clothing on sun beams, is really an actualization of the union of appearance and emptiness, the view.
I think it's more tone than content that tends to produce resistance in people, and this is no exception. If you just wrote the above lots of people would probably be delighted. Posts about how people aren't being proper Vajrayana students for not focusing on the things you do, in the way you do, probably would receive fewer cheers.
Now if you've perceived conversations on maintaining an orthodox style as "You're not Buddhist enough" what is the converse of this statement since you are making it, "you're too Buddhist" ??
How do I perceive it? I just think it involves too much finger-wagging. Just look how quickly some people jumped "but but you're a materialist" the minute there was any talk of siddhis outside of the orthodox style veneration. Loosen up IMO.

It's also been my experience in the meatspace Vajrayana world that Simon E. has a -very- valid point about over-focus on things like siddhi being a form of spiritual materialism, ymmv.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

User avatar
DechenDave
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:25 pm

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by DechenDave » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:16 pm

It kind of went both ways in this thread, no?
Some people seemed to be looking down their nose or scoffing or sarcastic or had a tone that if you cared about or had respect for siddhis you are somehow misguided, a pleb, a lightweight that is drawn to shiny things rather than the “real” practice of doing laundry or whatever.
At least that’s what I was projecting on what people were saying. I felt subtly triggered, I noticed it, and that’s why I deleted my last snarky post...
Last edited by DechenDave on Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tkp67
Posts: 1674
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by tkp67 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:20 pm

I would like to interject and make a simple observation about my self

when I attach a value to my practice in such a way that it can be denigrated by other person's differential in perspective I am holding it way too tightly with no benefit to be had for my self and those I am trying to effectively communicate with

just how it works for me

hope this isn't taken as offensive or judgmental I think both sides are valid and can remain valid on their own merit and that arguing against that dynamic argues against the reality we are experiencing here

pemachophel
Posts: 1615
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by pemachophel » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:23 pm

Johnny,

You should know that, if I have developed siddhi, I couldn't and wouldn't tell you. It's just the way it works.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 11003
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:26 pm

DechenDave wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:16 pm
It kind of went both ways in this thread, no?
Some people seemed to be looking down their nose or scoffing or sarcastic or had a tone that if you cared about or had respect for siddhis you are somehow misguided, a pleb, a lightweight that is drawn to shiny things rather than the “real” practice of doing laundry or whatever.
At least that’s what I was projecting on what people were saying. I felt subtly triggered, I noticed it, and that’s why I deleted my last snarky post...
On some forums that would be my interpretation. On this forum the Vajra cop mentality is a lot more prevalent, and we are in the TB section, I already know what most people here think about siddhi, and I know most are not "materialists", though there may be varying views of interpretation - that alone is enough to rub some people the wrong way.

We all have to be "that guy" to someone;)
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 11003
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:27 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:23 pm
Johnny,

You should know that, if I have developed siddhi, I couldn't and wouldn't tell you. It's just the way it works.
Hmm, but don't you already know that I know?

Seriously, was meant as a joke...albeit a joke meant to draw out the crux of the conflict in the thread.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

User avatar
PeterC
Posts: 2090
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by PeterC » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:16 am

pemachophel wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:12 pm
I think you and a number of other respondents on this thread are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
What I’m saying is not dissimilar to what Padampa Sangye said in the exchange that gave his tradition its name
Have you done enough of a Yidam or Dakini sadhana to get to the lay-jor/lay-tshog section?


Yes
As for contemporary masters and common siddhi, because the attainment of these is usually kept very secret and not shown openly, we really can't say what masters have or do not have such siddhi. Nor can we say for sure what a Teacher says in public is the same thing they might say to advanced student in strict secrecy.
Indeed, we don’t know what we don’t know. Applies to many situations.
I'm from a very "ngakpa" lineage and, without question, my Teachers had and sometimes manifested common siddhi when the situation was right. In addition, They expected Their students to also attain siddhi as part of their training (but, of course, not the end goal). At some point in Their advanced students' training, after having done the Three Roots, each student had to promise to attain one of the eight common siddhi.
Look, this is clearly important to you. Doesn’t mean it has to be important to anyone else. And there is distinct danger in it becoming *too* important.

For instance. We were barely a few posts into this thread before we got into stories about CTR conjuring up nagas. The point of Simon’s story was not that he was a great teacher because he could command nagas: he was a great teacher if and only if he could teach the Dharma. But there’s always going to be people who get excited about the nagas.

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Travelling on the sunrays

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:27 am

PeterC wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:16 am
pemachophel wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:12 pm
I think you and a number of other respondents on this thread are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
What I’m saying is not dissimilar to what Padampa Sangye said in the exchange that gave his tradition its name



Keep in mind, this very same Padampa Sangye, lived, breathed, and taught, in a body that was not originally his own, through his perfection of transference of consciousness into the body of another.

So he was in essence, a walking Siddhi.
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa

Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”