Taking Apart Ngondro

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Cinnabar
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:59 pm

Re: Taking Apart Ngondro

Post by Cinnabar » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:28 am

conebeckham wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:56 pm
heart wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:31 pm
Cinnabar wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:40 pm


Because when I practice with a dharma brother he says: this is a problem.
Group practice should be done in a traditional way, when you are alone it is fine to spend extended time on the parts you want to.

/magnus
I also agree with this. When I was living at a Dharma center, Ngondro was done as a group practice Saturdays from 10 to 11:30 am. Recitations were done 7 times each, except for VS mantras which were done 100x. (long one, and a bunch of the short one). This was the Kamtsang Ngondro, Chariot for Travelling.....also, it was done in English and Tibetan, alternately, and actual physical prostrations were not done in a group setting, nor were Mandala plates used.

In personal practice, things were different.
I was never taught a formal liturgical form of the ngondro I am currently working on.

This also isn't a "group practice". As in I am at a center and I'm leading a practice as some proxy for the lama or center.

This is called "practicing at my house".

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conebeckham
Posts: 5016
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Taking Apart Ngondro

Post by conebeckham » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:58 am

Cinnabar wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:28 am
conebeckham wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:56 pm
heart wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:31 pm


Group practice should be done in a traditional way, when you are alone it is fine to spend extended time on the parts you want to.

/magnus
I also agree with this. When I was living at a Dharma center, Ngondro was done as a group practice Saturdays from 10 to 11:30 am. Recitations were done 7 times each, except for VS mantras which were done 100x. (long one, and a bunch of the short one). This was the Kamtsang Ngondro, Chariot for Travelling.....also, it was done in English and Tibetan, alternately, and actual physical prostrations were not done in a group setting, nor were Mandala plates used.

In personal practice, things were different.
I was never taught a formal liturgical form of the ngondro I am currently working on.

This also isn't a "group practice". As in I am at a center and I'm leading a practice as some proxy for the lama or center.

This is called "practicing at my house".
With others, it's a "group practice"---even if it's one other person.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Cinnabar
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:59 pm

Re: Taking Apart Ngondro

Post by Cinnabar » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:59 am

conebeckham wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:58 am
Cinnabar wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:28 am
conebeckham wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:56 pm


I also agree with this. When I was living at a Dharma center, Ngondro was done as a group practice Saturdays from 10 to 11:30 am. Recitations were done 7 times each, except for VS mantras which were done 100x. (long one, and a bunch of the short one). This was the Kamtsang Ngondro, Chariot for Travelling.....also, it was done in English and Tibetan, alternately, and actual physical prostrations were not done in a group setting, nor were Mandala plates used.

In personal practice, things were different.
I was never taught a formal liturgical form of the ngondro I am currently working on.

This also isn't a "group practice". As in I am at a center and I'm leading a practice as some proxy for the lama or center.

This is called "practicing at my house".
With others, it's a "group practice"---even if it's one other person.
Alright, I guess I was at fault then.

Thanks for the head's up.

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 5016
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Taking Apart Ngondro

Post by conebeckham » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:51 pm

Cinnabar wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:59 am
conebeckham wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:58 am
Cinnabar wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:28 am


I was never taught a formal liturgical form of the ngondro I am currently working on.

This also isn't a "group practice". As in I am at a center and I'm leading a practice as some proxy for the lama or center.

This is called "practicing at my house".
With others, it's a "group practice"---even if it's one other person.
Alright, I guess I was at fault then.

Thanks for the head's up.
Sorry, I don't mean to be a "Boss," or criticize you personally. I'm just speaking from my experience--when you practice with others, it tends to force a certain accommodation or sensitivity. From my own experience, I would have to adapt pace and format when practicing with others, whether as the Umdze (Chant leader) or even as a member of the group. Even "practicing at my house," with others. When I lived in the Dharma Center there was an expectation regarding the format, pace, etc., so it was somewhat easier, and all participants had similar expectations after their initial exposure.

In a retreat setting, people do their solo sessions, and there are often group sessions, as well. These will differ, too.

No fault, Cinnabar.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: Taking Apart Ngondro

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:13 am

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:51 pm
As I have been taught in the Nyingma System, the Ngondro practice itself represents a complete wisdom, it is a complete practice. & so even if we are only doing Refuge, we would also briefly recite the other sections of the Ngondro.
I was recently talking to a lama about the longchen nyingtik ngondro and he basically said this same thing. Do the whole thing everytime, but repeat the individual parts for the accumulations.

Terma
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:07 am

Re: Taking Apart Ngondro

Post by Terma » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:43 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:13 am
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:51 pm
As I have been taught in the Nyingma System, the Ngondro practice itself represents a complete wisdom, it is a complete practice. & so even if we are only doing Refuge, we would also briefly recite the other sections of the Ngondro.
I was recently talking to a lama about the longchen nyingtik ngondro and he basically said this same thing. Do the whole thing everytime, but repeat the individual parts for the accumulations.
Could be teacher specific, but I have been taught the exact opposite with the ngondro I was doing. For example while accumulating refuge and prostrations, follow the text up until that point then dissolve the visualization according to the text and then skip to the dedication at the end of the text.

When accumulating Vajrasattva, for example, we were instructed to recite the whole text up until the end of the Vajrasattva Accumulations- dissolve according to the text and then skip to the dedication at the end.

But different teachers have different methods for their students I suppose.

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