that is the theravada view, isnt it? or are you distinguishing between arya reincarnations and sentient beings?
Reincarnated Lamas
Re: Reincarnated Lamas
No, read my lips: there is no Buddhism where Shakyamuni Buddha is seen as "being an ordinary human who happened to become enlightened".TrimePema wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:04 pmthat is the theravada view, isnt it? or are you distinguishing between arya reincarnations and sentient beings?
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Reincarnated Lamas
Umm...what?heart wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:55 pmNo, read my lips: there is no Buddhism where Shakyamuni Buddha is seen as "being an ordinary human who happened to become enlightened".
/magnus
I’m of the same understanding as TrimePema. Well, maybe you could omit the words “happened to”. But still a sentient being becomes an enlightened being.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Reincarnated Lamas
Even in the Theravada,the Buddha was not an “ordinary” sentient being.TrimePema wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:04 pmthat is the theravada view, isnt it? or are you distinguishing between arya reincarnations and sentient beings?
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Re: Reincarnated Lamas
Anyone hang out over at DhammaWheel? Sounds like a question for those guys.Even in the Theravada,the Buddha was not an “ordinary” sentient being.
~~~~~
He transitioned from an unenlightened human to a fully enlightened human, right? His status was just like we are now. I think the references to him as a “Bodhisatt” refers to his karmic trajectory and not to his realization of a bhumi.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: Reincarnated Lamas
Hi,
the only dharma school which - from time to time--considers the Buddha as ordinary human being is Ch'an... and it's done exclusively in particular circumstances to be conducive to realization. It's not a philosophical stance.
Consider the hagiography of the Buddha (which is accepted by the theravada and many other schools) and you'll see that he was special even before he was born.
On a side note, I think that this Buddhist article may be relevant to this thread
https://www.lionsroar.com/dalai-lama-su ... on-system/
I think it's implicit that H. H. Dalai Lama no longer believes in the tulku system of reincarnated lamas.
the only dharma school which - from time to time--considers the Buddha as ordinary human being is Ch'an... and it's done exclusively in particular circumstances to be conducive to realization. It's not a philosophical stance.
Consider the hagiography of the Buddha (which is accepted by the theravada and many other schools) and you'll see that he was special even before he was born.
On a side note, I think that this Buddhist article may be relevant to this thread
https://www.lionsroar.com/dalai-lama-su ... on-system/
I think it's implicit that H. H. Dalai Lama no longer believes in the tulku system of reincarnated lamas.
Re: Reincarnated Lamas
No. The classical Theravadin position is that his Bodhisattva career occurred over multiple lifetimes.smcj wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:05 amAnyone hang out over at DhammaWheel? Sounds like a question for those guys.Even in the Theravada,the Buddha was not an “ordinary” sentient being.
~~~~~
He transitioned from an unenlightened human to a fully enlightened human, right? His status was just like we are now. I think the references to him as a “Bodhisatt” refers to his karmic trajectory and not to his realization of a bhumi.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Reincarnated Lamas
The Jataka tales is a part of the Shravakayana scriptures, the Tripitaka. It describes the amazing things Shakyamuni did in previous lives, like offering his body to a starving tigress. Even if he wasn't enlightened a long time before he was born as Shakyamuni (the Mahayana view) he certainly was no ordinary human. His life as Shakyamuni was the end of an endless amount of lives accumulating the circumstances to be a Buddha. Only the Vajrayana say that it is possible to reach enlightenment in one life, and that is not the enlightenment of Shakyamuni Buddha.smcj wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:01 amUmm...what?
I’m of the same understanding as TrimePema. Well, maybe you could omit the words “happened to”. But still a sentient being becomes an enlightened being.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Reincarnated Lamas
The Jataka Tales establish his karmic trajectory. That’s different than having realized a bhumi.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Reincarnated Lamas
Of course he did, but in Shravakayana they have a different set of Bhumis: https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Eight_bhumis
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Reincarnated Lamas
either way, even Shakyamuni displayed the path for sentient beings. that's what arya beings and Buddhas do.