Offering bowl water and pets

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LhakpaT
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Offering bowl water and pets

Post by LhakpaT »

My cat loves drinking the water on my shrine (also quite likes to squeeze herself in there next to the Buddha statue). She is not conducive to being told not to - being a cat, after all. Is this OK?
Also, can the water be given to the cats at the end of the day instead of being poured out outside?

I'd love to hear similar stories, especially when it comes to preventing your pets from wrecking the more delicate things you may have on shrines or hanging on the wall
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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

problem with little friends as these is that based on ignorance they can mess up things, steal things, etc., etc. so for their own good none can dwell in my room where i do and keep my things.
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by KathyLauren »

The water represents eight different kinds of offerings: flowers, incense, food, etc. If water can stand in for all those offerings by means of creative visualization, there is no reason why another substance couldn't stand in for them as well. A handful of dried rice, for example. Or even air.

Om mani padme hum
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LhakpaT
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by LhakpaT »

KathyLauren wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:19 pm The water represents eight different kinds of offerings: flowers, incense, food, etc. If water can stand in for all those offerings by means of creative visualization, there is no reason why another substance couldn't stand in for them as well. A handful of dried rice, for example. Or even air.

Om mani padme hum
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I've never heard of offering seven rice or empty bowls - not saying it's not done, just never heard of it. I don't think changing the substances will do much to dissuade my cat from hanging out on the shrine, no matter how little space there is.
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LhakpaT
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by LhakpaT »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:56 pm problem with little friends as these is that based on ignorance they can mess up things, steal things, etc., etc. so for their own good none can dwell in my room where i do and keep my things.
Unfortunately I do not have the option of keeping them from the room.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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If your bowls are somewhere high, make the surface un-jumpable. Meaning, put enough stuff around that the cat won't want to jump there. Other than that, you just gotta keep them out. I let my car in with me when I sit only, for some reason silent meditation and she will sleep in front of me peacefully. Other stuff she gets weird and tries to get on the altar.
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:23 pm If your bowls are somewhere high, make the surface un-jumpable. Meaning, put enough stuff around that the cat won't want to jump there. Other than that, you just gotta keep them out. I let my car in with me when I sit only, for some reason silent meditation and she will sleep in front of me peacefully. Other stuff she gets weird and tries to get on the altar.
Must be strange seeing your car jump on your altar!

:lol:
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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SonamTashi wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:27 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:23 pm If your bowls are somewhere high, make the surface un-jumpable. Meaning, put enough stuff around that the cat won't want to jump there. Other than that, you just gotta keep them out. I let my car in with me when I sit only, for some reason silent meditation and she will sleep in front of me peacefully. Other stuff she gets weird and tries to get on the altar.
Must be strange seeing your car jump on your altar!

:lol:
:twothumbsup: :jumping:
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by LhakpaT »

I doubt any amount of objects will deter one of them. But I will try. I don't mind them on there if they don't break anything but obviously if it is negative for them to do that or to drink the water then I don't want that.
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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LhakpaT wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:35 pm I doubt any amount of objects will deter one of them. But I will try. I don't mind them on there if they don't break anything but obviously if it is negative for them to do that or to drink the water then I don't want that.
I don't really buy the claim that it's negative to them, but it certainly disrupts ones offering. A cat is not intentionally using offerings meant for the Three Jewels.

My altar is actually in a large closet due to these sorts of problems in our previous house, advantages to this include not needing to worry about displaying images not fit for non-Buddhists, as well as being able to control access to the space from children and pets.

Previously I used folding screens, not nearly as good, but they can work.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

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LhakpaT
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by LhakpaT »

I read in an old post here one could fill the bowls with salt instead of water :shrug:
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:49 pm
LhakpaT wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:35 pm I doubt any amount of objects will deter one of them. But I will try. I don't mind them on there if they don't break anything but obviously if it is negative for them to do that or to drink the water then I don't want that.
I don't really buy the claim that it's negative to them, but it certainly disrupts ones offering. A cat is not intentionally using offerings meant for the Three Jewels.
not knowing doesn't prevent consequences. that's what ignorance is. we transmigrate because of that.

if i kill a human and don't know it's consequences, i'm saved?
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Well, either move your altar, or put rice into your bowls and into the rice put a symbol of what you offer. This way you still have to have 2 bowls with water, but it might help.
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:30 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:49 pm
LhakpaT wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:35 pm I doubt any amount of objects will deter one of them. But I will try. I don't mind them on there if they don't break anything but obviously if it is negative for them to do that or to drink the water then I don't want that.
I don't really buy the claim that it's negative to them, but it certainly disrupts ones offering. A cat is not intentionally using offerings meant for the Three Jewels.
not knowing doesn't prevent consequences. that's what ignorance is. we transmigrate because of that.

if i kill a human and don't know it's consequences, i'm saved?
An accidental death is far less dire Karma than if you intended to kill someone, that's for sure. The comparison here is accidental death, as the animals knowing nothing of the significance of the objects. Beyond that, not debating with you. If you guys wanna worry about the karmic debt your cat incurs from drinking offering water (due to ignorance of the fact that these are Dharma objects/offerings and this being was born an animal) somehow being worse than the merit they might incur from a glimmer of recognition being around holy objects, that's your thing, I think it's a bit of goofy worry, but I know plenty would disagree.

Incurring karmic consequences for acts which involve no real volition is closer to a Jain concept than a Buddhist one, though I admit there's some grey area here. There are of course many other solid reasons to keep your offerings unmolested, so the point is moot.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 pm If you guys wanna worry about the karmic debt your cat incurs from drinking offering water (due to ignorance of the fact that these are Dharma objects/offerings and this being was born an animal) somehow being worse than the merit they might incur from a glimmer of recognition being around holy objects, that's your thing, I think it's a bit of goofy worry, but I know plenty would disagree.

Incurring karmic consequences for acts which involve no volition is closer to a Jain concept than a Buddhist one, though I admit there's some grey area here.
I would add to this that Garchen Rinpoche reportedly said that it is better to take an empowerment and fail to uphold samayas as even if one falls to hell, it still means one has the connection and will attain enlightenment sooner than those without.
Generally I believe there won't be much harm for the animals. Unless the water is not good.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:30 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:49 pm

I don't really buy the claim that it's negative to them, but it certainly disrupts ones offering. A cat is not intentionally using offerings meant for the Three Jewels.
not knowing doesn't prevent consequences. that's what ignorance is. we transmigrate because of that.

if i kill a human and don't know it's consequences, i'm saved?
An accidental death is far less dire Karma than if you intended to kill someone, that's for sure. The comparison here is accidental death, as the animals knowing nothing of the significance of the objects. Beyond that, not debating with you. If you guys wanna worry about the karmic debt your cat incurs from drinking offering water (due to ignorance of the fact that these are Dharma objects/offerings and this being was born an animal) somehow being worse than the merit they might incur from a glimmer of recognition being around holy objects, that's your thing, I think it's a bit of goofy worry, but I know plenty would disagree.

Incurring karmic consequences for acts which involve no real volition is closer to a Jain concept than a Buddhist one, though I admit there's some grey area here. There are of course many other solid reasons to keep your offerings unmolested, so the point is moot.
i'm not talking of accidents, i'm talking of plain ignorance.

it's ok, we are not obligated to discuss :)
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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LhakpaT wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:23 am My cat loves drinking the water on my shrine (also quite likes to squeeze herself in there next to the Buddha statue). She is not conducive to being told not to - being a cat, after all. Is this OK?
Also, can the water be given to the cats at the end of the day instead of being poured out outside?

I'd love to hear similar stories, especially when it comes to preventing your pets from wrecking the more delicate things you may have on shrines or hanging on the wall
In H.H. the Dalai Lama's autobiography Freedom in Exile, it says
[...] and little dishes of food and water placed in offering to the Buddhas. Every day these would be plundered by mice. I became very fond of these little creatures. They were very beautiful and showed no fear as they helped themselves to their daily rations. At night, as I lay in bed, I would hear these companions of mine running to and fro.
So I wouldn't be too concerned about your cat drinking from your water bowls.

However, if you want a practical solution, replace the open bowls with closed containers of water, whether that be glass jars or bottles of water. For permanent shrine offerings like those enclosed in stupas, they often use bottles of water and bottles of perfume.
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

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jmlee369 wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:24 pm
In H.H. the Dalai Lama's autobiography Freedom in Exile, it says
[...] and little dishes of food and water placed in offering to the Buddhas. Every day these would be plundered by mice. I became very fond of these little creatures. They were very beautiful and showed no fear as they helped themselves to their daily rations. At night, as I lay in bed, I would hear these companions of mine running to and fro.
So I wouldn't be too concerned about your cat drinking from your water bowls.

However, if you want a practical solution, replace the open bowls with closed containers of water, whether that be glass jars or bottles of water. For permanent shrine offerings like those enclosed in stupas, they often use bottles of water and bottles of perfume.
that happened during his childhood.

i would like to ask, ¿do an action commited in ignorance of it's consequences do bear no cosequence?
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by heart »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:24 pm
jmlee369 wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:24 pm
In H.H. the Dalai Lama's autobiography Freedom in Exile, it says
[...] and little dishes of food and water placed in offering to the Buddhas. Every day these would be plundered by mice. I became very fond of these little creatures. They were very beautiful and showed no fear as they helped themselves to their daily rations. At night, as I lay in bed, I would hear these companions of mine running to and fro.
So I wouldn't be too concerned about your cat drinking from your water bowls.

However, if you want a practical solution, replace the open bowls with closed containers of water, whether that be glass jars or bottles of water. For permanent shrine offerings like those enclosed in stupas, they often use bottles of water and bottles of perfume.
that happened during his childhood.

i would like to ask, ¿do an action commited in ignorance of it's consequences do bear no cosequence?
Karma depends on intention, so if the intention is good then even a bad action will not have a bad karmic effect.

/magnus
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~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Offering bowl water and pets

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

heart wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:48 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:24 pm
jmlee369 wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:24 pm
In H.H. the Dalai Lama's autobiography Freedom in Exile, it says



So I wouldn't be too concerned about your cat drinking from your water bowls.

However, if you want a practical solution, replace the open bowls with closed containers of water, whether that be glass jars or bottles of water. For permanent shrine offerings like those enclosed in stupas, they often use bottles of water and bottles of perfume.
that happened during his childhood.

i would like to ask, ¿do an action commited in ignorance of it's consequences do bear no cosequence?
Karma depends on intention, so if the intention is good then even a bad action will not have a bad karmic effect.

/magnus
i'm afraid than that principle has become overgeneralized. it ain't that simple.

not because one is buddhist karma will work different that it would for non buddhists.
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